Flopzilla vs. Flop Falcon?

DocDoc Red Chipper Posts: 12 ✭✭
edited September 2017 in Poker Software
Hey everyone! I'm sure that this has likely been addressed already but I was wondering if someone could please explain the purchase-worthy differences between Flopzilla and FF.

I will need to partition my Mac to be able to do so, not sure if that makes a difference in choosing software?

Would appreciate some insight on this :)
«1

Comments

  • tfaziotfazio Red Chipper Posts: 819 ✭✭✭
    I don't like mac installation for either product. I put both on a PC and login to it as needed. I have heard some have with more success with flopzilla.
  • Adam WheelerAdam Wheeler Red Chipper Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭✭
    I currently run Flopzilla on a windows install on my MAC (separated disk) and it works perfectly. I run PIO Solver also on the same windows disk and it work perfectly also.
  • Lisandro LLisandro L Red Chipper Posts: 10 ✭✭
    I generally prefer Flopzilla too
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 701 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    I've actually been waffling between Power Equilab and Flopzilla but I have CREV and GTO +, which I am having trouble learning, so I might as well keep things "all in the family" and use Flopzilla as it's integrated into the other two programs, naturally. Also, prior to tonight, I had not seen the power that is two Flopzilla's running side by side and mutually connected to HoldEq. I've been learning a ton of that on the table intuition you guys talk about all the time just from being able to visualize things like equity and combos from off the table work with these programs.

    So, basically I'm going to cancel the PE subscription as it's not worth it with everything else I have there and I'm contemplating an annual Snowie sub. DriveHUD and PT4 have some nice tools inside of them, as well.

  • Ray KRay K Red Chipper Posts: 115 ✭✭
    I have flopzilla, haven't tried flop falcon
  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've partitioned my mac book HD and flopzilla works fine.
    it does everything I need it to do... so i haven't explored other software alternative.
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 701 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    Well, I've noticed something that just didn't come up until now for me: Deep range analysis for multiway pots. You simply can't do it with FZ. The closest you can try to come is opening 3+ versions of FZ and HoldEQ and even then almost all advanced analysis tools and features are limited to 2 ranges. On the flipside, there is absolutely nothing out there that does range v range equity/combination calcuations for multiway pots like Power Equilab does. PokerRanger tried to but PE has always just stayed ahead of it.

    I know there's a lot of FR and Live players here and I think you should really look into the trial for PE. You can do a *lot* that you can't do with FZ once we're talking about 3+ people in the hand. Both pre and post.
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 701 ✭✭✭
    gj66mxdeqib6.png

    I can't do this kind of range construction with FZ without doing far more work for range v range. When it becomes Range vs multiple ranges - I can't do it at all.
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 701 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 701 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    1u1o6zcn3bx3.png

    I mean, you can clearly see where FZ is trying to play catchup with PE, and not the other way around.

    How this all compares to the OP? Between FZ and PE out there, Flop Falcon is entirely redundant. I promote RCP heavily but I also call it like it is. Then when comparing FF to FZ? I felt the need to again highlight PE, especially considering that as I'm digging into the game deeper and deeper - and even though I've clearly done everything to just focus on FZ, I can't afford not to use PE as it's RIO is simply greater than the other product (FZ). That's what James said about this site vs a few others when I first showed up here and asked about subbing here. He said to try this site and the others and see which gives the better RIO. Well, it's the same thing here and PE is definitely the product that is going to (and has) put more money into my pocket thus far.

    Of course, using any of the three programs is +EV.

    If you really want to talk about absolutely no limitations to analysis whatsoever - without delving into GTO at all - then run FZ next to PE and the sky's the limit.
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 701 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    tb88ezjw818u.png


    Extensive mathematical calculations that I would have to say do border on GTO, IMO. Better, more knowledgeable players can make their own interpretation and correct me if I'm wrong.
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 701 ✭✭✭
    7afutujsg6d6.png

    Makes it easy to find profitable 3betting ranges from different positions. Intertwining all of this with board coverage (as we mentioned last week), and a HUD with heat maps, is extremely fun and advantageous.
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 701 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    So I tweak all three ranges, narrow it down more, and then run multiple random flops. In the end, I see some interesting ideas on 3betting from the BTN that I hadn't had in my repertoire before.

    ppc0rqpgta7b.png

    Then I crop the ranges by selecting from what I've selected as their typical continuing range on a 3sJhQd board. Basically, this is how my 3b range above fairs against hands that do continue against it:

    jiykcgr6ktsd.png

    It changes things but allows me to further tweak and define, seeing what boards favor what ranges vs what ranges, and which hands/combos in those ranges hold the most equity from flop to turn, turn to river, and flop to river.



  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 701 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    1emnposjoorn.png

    Multiple flop equities with multiple ranges, including weighting. Can go all the way up to all 1755 strategically distinct flops, or at several integers below that. Again, virtually no limitation to what you can do with up to 10 ranges involved in the hand, although an added bonus is that you do get to tell the program what size table you're playing and things will adjust accordingly where need be.
  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    Honey, there's a Poker Equilab salesman at the door....
    did you order something from him?
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,617 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,617 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The thing is, i want to consider power equilab too as i don't get along with flopzilla, but they wouldn't even contact me back about a simple support question.
  • tfaziotfazio Red Chipper Posts: 819 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    I have found FWIW, flopzilla support to be excellent, always a quick response from Scylla. Quite often it's no flopzilla can't do that, and no it won't be in the next release. Also the latest video from Doug "if I get a safe flop", uses Flop Falcon showing the depth it can be used to analyze flops. Two different tools in my tool box.

    @persuadeo "Tfazio better up his game.", always with the comedy.
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 701 ✭✭✭
    kagey wrote: »
    Honey, there's a Poker Equilab salesman at the door....
    did you order something from him?

    Well, in all fairness - By this same standard I've been an RCP salesman at times, too.

  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 701 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    persuadeo wrote: »
    The thing is, i want to consider power equilab too as i don't get along with flopzilla, but they wouldn't even contact me back about a simple support question.

    https://www.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?postid=2725606#post2725606

    There's a dozen different places to contact them but this is by far the best.

    Scylla's support is fantastic, as a few of you have pointed out. Perhaps as good as could be. PS's support of Power Equilab is really right behind it. They definitely do a good job of keeping up with the product and they update it/add to it often.
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 701 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    If you go back to the main PE forum thread I linked in my last, you'll see that a new version was just released less than an hour ago. It addresses much of what had been discussed in that very thread over the past week or so.

    v1.10.21.0
  • kevinhaggykevinhaggy Red Chipper Posts: 25 ✭✭
    I believe that Flopzilla is made for Hand vs Range calculator. But, for Range vs Range I have PokerRanger and I really like use that product.
  • tfaziotfazio Red Chipper Posts: 819 ✭✭✭
    @persuadeo [email protected] skylla will be back to you within 24 hours as is my experience with a Scottish sounding and salty answer.
    @kevinhaggy using holdeq ad on that comes with flopzilla you can run two instances and examine range vs range scenarios.

    FlopFalcon is an in depth flop analysis tool with great potential for flop exploration. These tools are relatively inexpensive and useful in their own way.
  • Adam WheelerAdam Wheeler Red Chipper Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    kevinhaggy wrote: »
    I believe that Flopzilla is made for Hand vs Range calculator. But, for Range vs Range I have PokerRanger and I really like use that product.

    You can perfectly do Range vs. Range with Flopzilla.
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 701 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    kevinhaggy wrote: »
    I believe that Flopzilla is made for Hand vs Range calculator. But, for Range vs Range I have PokerRanger and I really like use that product.

    You can perfectly do Range vs. Range with Flopzilla.

    Yes, but Flopzilla's limitations come into play when you're trying to compare 3+ ranges to each other in depth. This is where Power Equilab takes the ball and runs with it. Without rehashing everything said on the subject at risk of being labeled a salesman: There are quite a few things that PE does which no other analysis tool of it's kind does.

    The thing that's nice about FZ is that it fits with the FZ+GTO+CREV suite of tools and as far as GTO and features along the lines of PIOSolver, PE has made it clear that they have no current plans of going down that road. They're more interested in further expanding upon the equity/range analysis of PE.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,617 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree that it's pretty nifty Joseph, and I so wanted to use Power Equilab, but now it just fails on start. I'm afraid I give up.
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 701 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    persuadeo wrote: »
    I agree that it's pretty nifty Joseph, and I so wanted to use Power Equilab, but now it just fails on start. I'm afraid I give up.

    Really? That's strange. I've had a crash or two but nothing more than Flopzilla has. All in all it's run extremely smoothly.

    I don't even have an active sub right now. I'm just using Scylla's suite of tools and HoldEq, seeing if I'll pick the PE sub back up or go with something like Snowie. Player XRay is out for DriveHUD now, too and it costs $15/mo.

    In fairness to PE - I'm not paying any recurring subs right now. Everything I'm using I own and I'm not signed up for a training site for this month yet. I'm spending more time playing, analyzing, reading, and discussing.
  • star681star681 Red Chipper Posts: 399 ✭✭
    i like to stack people and then have them explain their graph
«1

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file