I played this really bad

humpsterhumpster Red Chipper Posts: 10 ✭✭
Recently I was playing in a pretty lively and aggressive 1/2 no limit cash game in my local casino. I had 325 and was up 175 on the night. Villain had just bought in for 350 and was down 400. I was in bb and utg1 straddled to 5. Their was 4 callers then I raised to 17 with ah aq in BB. 2 callers. Flop comes q 10 6 with 2 hearts. I lead out 35 and get one caller. Turn brings kh. I check. Villain then bet out 100. I had 273 left and with drawing hand decide to go all in. He calls. He has k 10 for 2 pair and it holds up. My thoughts now are that I should have just checked called the turn and fold on river he bet big. Any thoughts

Comments

  • AkashicAkashic Red Chipper Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November 13
    Your preflop raise to 17 is too low to begin with. I recommend raising to 30-45+. You will be out of position if anybody calls and this is a spot you would rather take it down pre.

    Shoving is a mistake, especially when you checked out of position. Hands that tend to call these limp raises include lots of face cards, so textures that have 2 of them often give the caller lots of equity. Sure you had a backdoor flush, but check calling is preferred here. Most people who play 1-2 live do not bluff for $100+ anywhere near often enough to try to get them to lay down to a semi-bluff.

    Folding to a large bet on the river is acceptable, after all, you only have 2nd top pair here at this point. Either way, you really should have put heavy pressure preflop with a bet around $45. Not too many people will call with KTo even in position when you start getting heavy. It's not a protection bet, it is a value bet.
  • dnoyeBdnoyeB Red Chipper Posts: 48 ✭✭
    I didn't catch your starting hand? You had AA or AQ?

    I don't dislike the starting raise if you had a really strong starting hand. Where I play 17 is enough to kick the true limpers out of the pot. You can maybe go to $22 but any higher than that and you just take it down immediately. I assume KT called with no one behind him? Somewhat loose but I suppose if he had position he can take a shot.

    This flop had both a face card and a flush draw. I wouldn't expect to push anyone out of this pot. Just bet it and ride it out. If the flush hits just expect to give it up if it looks like he was drawing. So the all-in was a definitely a mistake.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 773 ✭✭✭
    In addition to the helpful advice above, let me suggest yet another way to think about this hand by reverse engineering.

    Once you get to your check on the turn followed by V's bet on the turn, consider: What hands would V limp-call pre-flop, call on the flop, and then bet $100 on the turn? In addition, are there any hands in that range that V would fold to your shove? In essence, your re-constructing V's range here. Once you've done that (though, of course, this should not be an entirely reactive process!!), then what you should do at this point becomes much, much clearer.

    Next steps in your poker growth: How can you do that process faaar earlier in the hand -- beginning at pre-flop? And then how do you plan your entire hand -- also accordingly -- pre-flop?
  • AkashicAkashic Red Chipper Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November 14
    dnoyeB wrote: »
    I don't dislike the starting raise if you had a really strong starting hand. Where I play 17 is enough to kick the true limpers out of the pot. You can maybe go to $22 but any higher than that and you just take it down immediately. I assume KT called with no one behind him? Somewhat loose but I suppose if he had position he can take a shot.

    Also, there are 4 limpers. Best case = 3 people in position. Because of the limps, it is very safe to say we have the field crushed.

    Lets say the straddle at the table is at $5 instead of $4 like the OP claimed. With 4 limpers, that puts the pot at 20. Then he raises 17, so the pot is now 37. For a call to be profitable (mind you there is plenty of money behind) you do 49/12 =4.08:1 (they already have 5 invested) so they need 25% Equity to make the call profitable. When you compare AQo vs KTo, KTo has 37.4% equity against AQo. Easy call, especially in position. 17 is horrible, especially because this is a "pretty lively and aggressive table." The next person then gets even better odds to call.

    OP's hand range will likely have like 77+, AQo+, so against that range, KTo actually has 32.5% equity. This changes depending on previous hands shown and frequency of raises, obviously.

    When you raise to $45 instead, the pot is now at 65. So they need to put in 40 to win $105. This gives them 2.6:1 odds = 38% equity needed to break even

    Earlier, I did just rattle off the 30-45+ off the top of my head, but after doing the math, yeah make it closer to 45. Either way, most people are not studied enough at 1/2 to know how to calculate their hand vs OP range (which gets tighter because most people are afraid to raise big in early positions without top % cards).

    I have high success with 6x + dead money preflop raises. Sure at first people will stay away, but people came to the casino to play hands, not sit in their chair and fold. They will call...then fold.
  • humpsterhumpster Red Chipper Posts: 10 ✭✭
    Thanks for all the advise guys. I found it very helpful. This was my first time playing in a couple of months and its fair to say I was a bit rusty.
    Should probably have mentioned that the V was on tilt having just lost a big pot, banging on table etc.
    I agree with akashic that my pre flop raise should have been bigger, 25-35. And my cb should have been bigger too.
    Moishetreats, I really like your thought process and breaking down of this hand. But I find it very difficult to have this clear thought process when in the middle of a hand. Any suggestions on how to think correctly when in this and similar spots while at the table.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 773 ✭✭✭
    edited November 19
    humpster wrote: »
    Moishetreats, I really like your thought process and breaking down of this hand. But I find it very difficult to have this clear thought process when in the middle of a hand. Any suggestions on how to think correctly when in this and similar spots while at the table.

    Yes: Just remember that time feels much longer to you when you're pausing and thinking than it is in real life. Take your time, and don't worry about it. :)