I played this hand so horrible I wanted to share so I never do it again.

OMG HOMG H Red Chipper Posts: 24 ✭✭
1/2NL
We have been playing for a few hours now.
Villain has rebought a few times to $200- (effective stack now$250ish) Table max buy in is $300
I have been following Villains bet sizing, He raises to $16 with AA,KK,QQ....he raises to $22 when he has TT, JJ, or less.
Then this hand
It folds to Villain on the CutOff. He raises to $16
I flat on the Button with :AH: :AD: , SB, BB folds Pot $35
Flop :JS: :JC: :4D:
Villain bets $25 , I call $25 Pot now $84
(I am confident that he does not have the JJ, or any combo with J because of his preflop betting patterns)
Turn :2H:
Villain checks, I bet $75
Villain mulls it over for a bit, counts out his chips, then eventually calls. Pot now $230
River :QD:
Villain insta goes All in
Now I am pissed at myself for not reraising Preflop. I knew he had an overpair this whole time, but which one? I thought for sure it was either KK or QQ up to this point.
Once he goes all in $134 , I ask him if he has the QQ for the FH. He doesn't say anything and part of me feels he has the FH and part of me thinks he could do this with KK.
I finally call, he flips over QQ for the FH. I rack up my remaining chips and GTFO cause I'm so disgusted with myself.
So,
I feel my biggest mistake was to not reraise PF,
As played, Positives, negatives of what I did?

Comments

  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 669 ✭✭✭
    OMG H wrote: »
    I feel my biggest mistake was to not reraise PF

    This and vs XC-XC-lead you can fold river as you are going to see JX or QQ so often vs average LP. Unless you have played a ton of hours with villain I think narrowing his preflop ranges so much with bet-sizing is also a mistake.

    I find it can be helpful to ask yourself why you make the mistake? what went through your mind in game? This way you can work on yout technical game and mental game at the same time and also make it less likey you will repeat this mistake again.

  • Jonathan KJonathan K Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    I think there are arguments for raising and flatting. Some other factors that would affect my decision making to raise/flat include:

    - What is my image? How active have I been? With 3bets?
    - Is he ever folding the range you described when facing a 3bet?
    - How cally are the blinds? We prefer to play AA heads up rather than 3 or 4 way.

    I don't mind the way you played the hand up to the river if you know EXACTLY that he has KK or QQ. If you trust your reads then I like everything except calling river. Think of the hand range you described: AA-QQ (let's throw in JJ just for good measure)... How many do you beat? Also, if he just insta-jams river sometimes you just know you are beat and that he/she got there. I don't mind the way you played it, just an unfortunate run out. Trust your gut though. You were right.
  • Faustovaldez123Faustovaldez123 Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 596 ✭✭✭
    @OMG H you had a plan and a reason for flatting AA here and going post, so why beat yourself up when you get sucked out?? your plan is not always going to work, don't be results orientated

    on another note, if your so sure about his range based on bet sizing, you should just 3b your hand when he is never getting away from his own range
    COACHING NOW AVAILABLE HERE
  • WardoYTWardoYT Red Chipper Posts: 191 ✭✭
    OMG H wrote: »
    1/2NL
    We have been playing for a few hours now.
    Villain has rebought a few times to $200- (effective stack now$250ish) Table max buy in is $300
    I have been following Villains bet sizing, He raises to $16 with AA,KK,QQ....he raises to $22 when he has TT, JJ, or less.
    Then this hand
    It folds to Villain on the CutOff. He raises to $16
    I flat on the Button with :AH: :AD: , SB, BB folds Pot $35
    Flop :JS: :JC: :4D:
    Villain bets $25 , I call $25 Pot now $84
    (I am confident that he does not have the JJ, or any combo with J because of his preflop betting patterns)
    Turn :2H:
    Villain checks, I bet $75
    Villain mulls it over for a bit, counts out his chips, then eventually calls. Pot now $230
    River :QD:
    Villain insta goes All in
    Now I am pissed at myself for not reraising Preflop. I knew he had an overpair this whole time, but which one? I thought for sure it was either KK or QQ up to this point.
    Once he goes all in $134 , I ask him if he has the QQ for the FH. He doesn't say anything and part of me feels he has the FH and part of me thinks he could do this with KK.
    I finally call, he flips over QQ for the FH. I rack up my remaining chips and GTFO cause I'm so disgusted with myself.
    So,
    I feel my biggest mistake was to not reraise PF,
    As played, Positives, negatives of what I did?

    Pocket aces is not going to win all the time.
  • dnoyeBdnoyeB Red Chipper Posts: 48 ✭✭
    The only fail was not folding when you decided he had it. You had a good read on him but when you didn't like what it meant when the Q dropped you started lying to yourself. Otherwise it seemed a good plan.
  • justin sjustin s Red Chipper Posts: 1
    dnoyeB wrote: »
    The only fail was not folding when you decided he had it. You had a good read on him but when you didn't like what it meant when the Q dropped you started lying to yourself. Otherwise it seemed a good plan.

    Solid Advice right there. At that limit its rarely a bluff. You suckered yourself into calling. :(
  • Daniel LDaniel L Red Chipper Posts: 32 ✭✭
    Keep it simple - 3-bet PF, try and get it all in - not many people who play a style resulting in multiple reloads in quick succession can fold QQ+.
  • Yanming ZYanming Z Red Chipper Posts: 89 ✭✭
    Your biggest mistake was calling the river. It's important to correctly identify the point of error.

    Pre flop you can argue for either flating or raising, you are in position with a good hand, so it's okay to just flat. Unless there are mega fishes in the blinds, then you want to raise purely for value.

    On the flop the call is the correct play, raising here will fold out the hands you beat, because QQ is beating absolutely nothing, and KK knows this and will be relunctant to call. If you raise you are only gonna be called by better.

    On the turn when he checks its okay to either bet or check. Not much to talk about here.

    On the river when he shoves, it's a clear fold. You have shown strength the whole way, any single pair hand now will check in hope of a cheap show down. When your opponent shoving into strength, that means he has the nuts.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 800 ✭✭✭
    Yanming Z wrote: »
    On the flop the call is the correct play, raising here will fold out the hands you beat, because QQ is beating absolutely nothing, and KK knows this and will be relunctant to call. If you raise you are only gonna be called by better.

    On the turn when he checks its okay to either bet or check. Not much to talk about here.

    Based on assigned range, I'm ok with your flop analysis. But for the same reason, betting turn may not be optimal. Do @OMG H bet with AK? AQ? 88? And bet so much (75 into 84$) - which also creates pot geometry issues ?
    Based on a pure exploitative strategy, I'm not sure it's optimal to bet turn - Villain may fold to often worst hands he checks with (even tho he calls this time).
    Yanming Z wrote: »
    On the river when he shoves, it's a clear fold.
    Yep. Despite the good pot odds (Hero need to win 27% to be BE when calling), I don't think Villain will suddenly donk-shove with KK after a reluctant turn call. I even think he may turn c-bet KK regularly (which implies he has relatively more QQ to donk-shove on river).

    It's a clear "don't pay them off" spot.
    OMG H wrote: »
    I feel my biggest mistake was to not reraise PF,

    Fausto said it about PF. Flatting is ok, but I rather 3-bet. I think flatting is better only if you're too tight when 3-betting and Villain would fold many premium but worst hands. If you 3-bet regularly, then it's a clear 3-bet spot (as Villains know or can guess you don't only 3-bet with KK+)
  • KemahPhilKemahPhil Red Chipper Posts: 84 ✭✭
    What makes you think that this villain would have folded to a preflop raise? Based on your description of him, I suspect he was calling any preflop raise. If you made any mistake at all in this hand, I think it was not raising the flop.
  • OMG HOMG H Red Chipper Posts: 24 ✭✭
    KemahPhil wrote: »
    What makes you think that this villain would have folded to a preflop raise?

    My thought with raising PF would have been showing strength, I think villain would have folded to my Pot size bet on the turn. But I also think this type of thinking is when I am being results orientated.
    I am so glad I posted this hand. Lots of responses here have helped me think through again. So many more questions to ask myself during hands being played and after the hand is over.
    Thanks Everyone!!


  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 800 ✭✭✭
    OMG H wrote: »
    . So many more questions to ask myself during hands being played and after the hand is over.!!

    If you have no more question you're doing something wrong :)