Bet Sizing 1/2 NL in LAG game w/draw heavy board (student of game transitioning from Limit to NL)
Million_Dolla_Spot
Red Chipper Posts: 19 ✭✭
My Scene
I play in a weekly 1/2 NL home game (not raked)
Most players have played less than 5 sessions ever in a casino
$200 max buy in and can top off an anytime up to $200 (i always have a full stack)
Lots of $ in play, not uncommon to have 4-5k in play 9-10 handed
People are there to gamble and play every hand for stacks
More than 1/2 of the hands are 5-8 ways with a $2 limp to get in.
Seeking Help with: I am struggling with bet sizing and getting called
Example 1: in the BB 9 handed with effective stacks of 400. 6 limps and i make it 15 to go w/AdQd. Comments from the table on how tight i have been player and still everyone calls the 15 making it $105 preflop
Flop Qc 8c Qh
Seeing that its a wet board (flush/straight), I make a c-bet of $75 and all fold
My thinking is a $75 bet with a single caller, the pot is now $255 leaving me with $310 and a SPR of 1.1 setting up a turn shove.
Should i be afraid of letting someone draw out to a flush or straight?
I understand that if players stick around as that is where I will make money over the long term. Is the board as wet as i think?
Example 2: 5c 5d UTG +2
Effective stacks $200
UTG +2 w/5c 5d there is a button raise to 7 with 5 callers making it $35 in the pot
Flop
Jc 2h 5c
Checked to the UTG who make it $15, UTG +1 calls and the action is on me. With $65 in the pot, i check raise to $40 and the rest of the table folds.
Again, am i being to cautious of the boards being to wet in this case with the flush draw? My bet sizing is intended to chase out any draws.
Any advise is greatly appreciated.
I play in a weekly 1/2 NL home game (not raked)
Most players have played less than 5 sessions ever in a casino
$200 max buy in and can top off an anytime up to $200 (i always have a full stack)
Lots of $ in play, not uncommon to have 4-5k in play 9-10 handed
People are there to gamble and play every hand for stacks
More than 1/2 of the hands are 5-8 ways with a $2 limp to get in.
Seeking Help with: I am struggling with bet sizing and getting called
Example 1: in the BB 9 handed with effective stacks of 400. 6 limps and i make it 15 to go w/AdQd. Comments from the table on how tight i have been player and still everyone calls the 15 making it $105 preflop
Flop Qc 8c Qh
Seeing that its a wet board (flush/straight), I make a c-bet of $75 and all fold
My thinking is a $75 bet with a single caller, the pot is now $255 leaving me with $310 and a SPR of 1.1 setting up a turn shove.
Should i be afraid of letting someone draw out to a flush or straight?
I understand that if players stick around as that is where I will make money over the long term. Is the board as wet as i think?
Example 2: 5c 5d UTG +2
Effective stacks $200
UTG +2 w/5c 5d there is a button raise to 7 with 5 callers making it $35 in the pot
Flop
Jc 2h 5c
Checked to the UTG who make it $15, UTG +1 calls and the action is on me. With $65 in the pot, i check raise to $40 and the rest of the table folds.
Again, am i being to cautious of the boards being to wet in this case with the flush draw? My bet sizing is intended to chase out any draws.
Any advise is greatly appreciated.
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Comments
Also, you've to realize that if they are wild (at least preflop), they are coming on the flop with many junk hand which don't connect with the board. Nobody gonna call 60% pot c-bet on QQ8xcc without 2
2 last point on the fly
- the 2 flops you presented are rather dry. Except FD, it's hard to connect. So there is even more for them to fold. It would be VERY different on QT9scc for example.
- if they like to fold, so be it :) And use their folding tendencies (beware of board texture and against who in particular) to have successful bluffs
I'd say the board qualifies as pretty wet in that game type (in a tighter game, some people would consider drawing on a paired board a bad idea, not to mention that they'll draw to gutshots less, thus I would consider it effectively less wet). Personally I'd raise to $20-25 preflop, but other than that I think about the hand about as you do. With luck you'll catch someone with the other queen and stack someone (nothing funnier than watching 2 guys trying to out-slowplay each other all the way to the river.)
The reason I usually don't check/raise here is that it looks so strong. Even these gamblers will be suspicious of it. However after having donk bet the flop, you could consider a check/raise on the turn if you think it will get bet. You might not get a good jack to fold, but maybe too many other folds. I would just donk bet out near the size of the pot and catch the jacks and flush draws and maybe straight draws. But even if the board were Jc 6h 2s I'd still bet and try to catch the jacks and A6 type of hands.
But that's not really your intent, right? Isn't your intent to have them call, paying a poor price? If I flop a rare monster like a set, I'm hoping to get more out of it than just the small preflop pot.
How did you arrive at that?
If we were playing 15 handed Holdem, there would be a 120% chance someone made trips on a paired flop?
I've been there and done that. If you haven't played a hand in an hour, and you come out check raising......you're not gonna get paid.
I, personally, have changed my ways this year. For this exact reason.
@jeff
octavian is still learning the difference between a set and trips.... he thinks they are one in the same, so they have the same odds obviously.
Odds/probability of flopping a set 7.5 to 1
(or 11.8% chance)
Odds/probability of flopping trips (using one of your pocket cards) from two non-pair cards 73 to 1
(or 1.35% chance)
Odds/probability of the board showing a pair on the flop 5 to 1
(or 16.7% chance)
What I like to do at showdown is say "I have a set of trips", no matter which hand I have. It really annoys people :-)
I'm not sure if that's a function of the language that you hear at your poker table or if it's the result of being newer to poker terms or something else. But, I think that the language used in this post reflects a misguided approach to the game.
Example 2: 5c 5d UTG +2
Effective stacks $200
UTG +2 w/5c 5d there is a button raise to 7 with 5 callers making it $35 in the pot
Flop
Jc 2h 5c
Checked to the UTG who make it $15, UTG +1 calls and the action is on me. With $65 in the pot, i check raise to $40 and the rest of the table folds.
Again, am i being to cautious of the boards being to wet in this case with the flush draw? My bet sizing is intended to chase out any draws.
Any advise is greatly appreciated.
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You could have called the $15. This board isn't terribly wet and you can see most of the danger. You're only losing to two jacks at the moment and can easily stand to let another card roll off then evaluate what the turn brings.
Finally, if your image is that super tight in this loose game, you're not bluffing enough. But, that's another story.