Bet Sizing 1/2 NL in LAG game w/draw heavy board (student of game transitioning from Limit to NL)

Million_Dolla_SpotMillion_Dolla_Spot Red Chipper Posts: 19 ✭✭
My Scene
I play in a weekly 1/2 NL home game (not raked)
Most players have played less than 5 sessions ever in a casino
$200 max buy in and can top off an anytime up to $200 (i always have a full stack)
Lots of $ in play, not uncommon to have 4-5k in play 9-10 handed
People are there to gamble and play every hand for stacks
More than 1/2 of the hands are 5-8 ways with a $2 limp to get in.

Seeking Help with: I am struggling with bet sizing and getting called

Example 1: in the BB 9 handed with effective stacks of 400. 6 limps and i make it 15 to go w/AdQd. Comments from the table on how tight i have been player and still everyone calls the 15 making it $105 preflop
Flop Qc 8c Qh

Seeing that its a wet board (flush/straight), I make a c-bet of $75 and all fold

My thinking is a $75 bet with a single caller, the pot is now $255 leaving me with $310 and a SPR of 1.1 setting up a turn shove.

Should i be afraid of letting someone draw out to a flush or straight?
I understand that if players stick around as that is where I will make money over the long term. Is the board as wet as i think?


Example 2: 5c 5d UTG +2
Effective stacks $200

UTG +2 w/5c 5d there is a button raise to 7 with 5 callers making it $35 in the pot

Flop
Jc 2h 5c

Checked to the UTG who make it $15, UTG +1 calls and the action is on me. With $65 in the pot, i check raise to $40 and the rest of the table folds.

Again, am i being to cautious of the boards being to wet in this case with the flush draw? My bet sizing is intended to chase out any draws.

Any advise is greatly appreciated.






Comments

  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭
    You should think about what hand are going to call you. What is your targeted range(s).

    Also, you've to realize that if they are wild (at least preflop), they are coming on the flop with many junk hand which don't connect with the board. Nobody gonna call 60% pot c-bet on QQ8xcc without 2 :CLUB: a Q or at lowest peel one street with MP (8X or 99-JJ). In your both hands you show a lot of strength, and their range are wide and weak (i.e. many combos to fold).

    2 last point on the fly
    - the 2 flops you presented are rather dry. Except FD, it's hard to connect. So there is even more for them to fold. It would be VERY different on QT9scc for example.
    - if they like to fold, so be it :) And use their folding tendencies (beware of board texture and against who in particular) to have successful bluffs
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well played IMO. Charge the random flush draws, 99-JJ, and possibly A8 that calls once. They are there to gamble so you charged a decent price for them to do so.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,809 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    Thomas O wrote: »
    Flop Qc 8c Qh

    Seeing that its a wet board (flush/straight), I make a c-bet of $75 and all fold

    My thinking is a $75 bet with a single caller, the pot is now $255 leaving me with $310 and a SPR of 1.1 setting up a turn shove.

    Should i be afraid of letting someone draw out to a flush or straight?
    I understand that if players stick around as that is where I will make money over the long term. Is the board as wet as i think?

    I'd say the board qualifies as pretty wet in that game type (in a tighter game, some people would consider drawing on a paired board a bad idea, not to mention that they'll draw to gutshots less, thus I would consider it effectively less wet). Personally I'd raise to $20-25 preflop, but other than that I think about the hand about as you do. With luck you'll catch someone with the other queen and stack someone (nothing funnier than watching 2 guys trying to out-slowplay each other all the way to the river.)
    Thomas O wrote: »
    UTG +2 w/5c 5d there is a button raise to 7 with 5 callers making it $35 in the pot

    Flop
    Jc 2h 5c

    Checked to the UTG who make it $15, UTG +1 calls and the action is on me. With $65 in the pot, i check raise to $40 and the rest of the table folds.

    The reason I usually don't check/raise here is that it looks so strong. Even these gamblers will be suspicious of it. However after having donk bet the flop, you could consider a check/raise on the turn if you think it will get bet. You might not get a good jack to fold, but maybe too many other folds. I would just donk bet out near the size of the pot and catch the jacks and flush draws and maybe straight draws. But even if the board were Jc 6h 2s I'd still bet and try to catch the jacks and A6 type of hands.
    Thomas O wrote: »
    My bet sizing is intended to chase out any draws.

    But that's not really your intent, right? Isn't your intent to have them call, paying a poor price? If I flop a rare monster like a set, I'm hoping to get more out of it than just the small preflop pot.

  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,809 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Octavian I wrote: »
    The math is 8% per player someone made trips.

    How did you arrive at that?

    If we were playing 15 handed Holdem, there would be a 120% chance someone made trips on a paired flop?

  • ragin_cajunragin_cajun Red Chipper Posts: 47 ✭✭
    "Comments from the table on how tight i have been player"

    I've been there and done that. If you haven't played a hand in an hour, and you come out check raising......you're not gonna get paid.

    I, personally, have changed my ways this year. For this exact reason.

  • Million_Dolla_SpotMillion_Dolla_Spot Red Chipper Posts: 19 ✭✭
    Thank you for all the hand reviews and pointers. This site is nothing like # + #. Looking forward to engaging with the community.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jeffnc wrote: »
    Octavian I wrote: »
    The math is 8% per player someone made trips.

    How did you arrive at that?

    If we were playing 15 handed Holdem, there would be a 120% chance someone made trips on a paired flop?

    @jeff
    octavian is still learning the difference between a set and trips.... he thinks they are one in the same, so they have the same odds obviously.

    Odds/probability of flopping a set 7.5 to 1
    (or 11.8% chance)

    Odds/probability of flopping trips (using one of your pocket cards) from two non-pair cards 73 to 1
    (or 1.35% chance)

    Odds/probability of the board showing a pair on the flop 5 to 1
    (or 16.7% chance)
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,809 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    octavian is still learning the difference between a set and trips....

    What I like to do at showdown is say "I have a set of trips", no matter which hand I have. It really annoys people :-)

  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭
    Not this problem in French or German, "set" and "trips" have the same translation "three of a kind" :)
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,809 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wonder why three of a kind is the only hand rank that has two different words to describe it based on how you make it. For example, there's no distinction between holding XX in your hand with XX on the board, or X in your hand with XXX on the board. Or with holding XY in your hand with XXY on the board, or XX in your hand with XYY on the board, or X in your hand with XXYY on the board. Same for a flush or straight.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    This may sound odd, @Million_Dolla_Spot, but I think that you need to tighten up your use of poker language. Your post sounds like it is using poker jargon rather than precise terminology.

    I'm not sure if that's a function of the language that you hear at your poker table or if it's the result of being newer to poker terms or something else. But, I think that the language used in this post reflects a misguided approach to the game.
  • whycandiwhycandi Red Chipper Posts: 24 ✭✭
    [quote="Million_Dolla_Spot;d-9578"

    Example 2: 5c 5d UTG +2
    Effective stacks $200

    UTG +2 w/5c 5d there is a button raise to 7 with 5 callers making it $35 in the pot

    Flop
    Jc 2h 5c

    Checked to the UTG who make it $15, UTG +1 calls and the action is on me. With $65 in the pot, i check raise to $40 and the rest of the table folds.

    Again, am i being to cautious of the boards being to wet in this case with the flush draw? My bet sizing is intended to chase out any draws.

    Any advise is greatly appreciated.






    [/quote]

    You could have called the $15. This board isn't terribly wet and you can see most of the danger. You're only losing to two jacks at the moment and can easily stand to let another card roll off then evaluate what the turn brings.

    Finally, if your image is that super tight in this loose game, you're not bluffing enough. But, that's another story.

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