Missed Value?

OMG HeOMG He Red Chipper Posts: 52 ✭✭
edited December 2017 in Live Poker Hands
Live 1/2NL
I have been at the table about 2 hours. Villain plays a lot of poker by the way he was talking. He knew a bunch of the dealers and was talking to them about different players etc. He played a lot of hands but was not an ATM. more of a Loose Passive/Semi aggressive player.

So..
1 Limper, Villain EP2 (Stack $600+) raises to $10
I reraise LP1 (Stack $500) to $35, folds around to Villain who calls- Pot $50
Flop is :QH: :8S: :3C:
Villain Checks, I bet $40, Villain calls. Pot $130
Turn is :3S:
Villain checks, I bet $100, Villain Calls. Pot $330
River is :AH:
Villain Checks, I go All in
Villain seems frustrated, says he thought the Ace helped him out etc...Thinking, thinking, thinking....finally folds.

Is the Allin bet to much here?
The flush didn't get there, so thinking about it now just a Big Ace would have hit the river. I don't see him hitting trips with a three?

I had the :QS: :QC: and figured he would have reraised preflop with AA. I figured he had a Big Ace.

Comments

  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pot size is a little off as you said flop is 50, but 35+35 is 70.... Probably off 20 on each street.

    I think you played it for max value betting 1\2 than 2\3 pot then full pot. River you have about 325 left, just under full pot.

    Some times they are going to fold, just don't let them know they made a good fold, keep them curious. This hand your hoping he has KK or the last combo of AQ. Nothing else makes sense besides a sticky JJ-TT
  • Zero CoolZero Cool Red Chipper Posts: 231 ✭✭✭
    The way I always think about it when value betting is the longer it takes for V to decided the closer to perfect sizing the bet was. If you bet half pot and he snap calls then you missed some value.
  • Faustovaldez123Faustovaldez123 RCP Coach Posts: 750 ✭✭✭✭
    you could had bet less @OMG H and then argue you could had gone bigger, focus more on what ranges/hands this player could be calling you with and how are you going to take advantage of that since you mentioned he is a loose/semi aggressive player. This would help you throughout the session as well as how his range is impacted when the "A" comes out.

    and to your question, your bet looks more polarizing in a spot where you're repping missed hands and nuts on a board that does not present that, so kinda looks like you only have nuts
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  • Mike DMike D Red Chipper Posts: 17 ✭✭
    I tend to agree with fausto, that you look very strong. I think he is calling with 2 pair in any case. Unless he thinks you are a fish, he can fold top pair on the river to an all in but might call for $150 or so. He's not calling any bet without top pair.

    I think it is 50-50 all in vs a smaller bet. You lose the top pair hands with all in, but you may get 2 pair or another boat with all in.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    :Qh :8s :3c :3s :Ah

    Ep limp 2
    Ep2 raise 10
    LP Hero 3bet to 35
    Ep folds
    Ep2 calls.

    I think Hero can have a polarized range here @Faustovaldez123 lets say Hero is 3betting a weak iso to 35 with a polarized range preflop
    KK, AA, 75s-T8s, 54s-87s, AKs. A2s-A5s
    Im using suited as spades cause thats the only part of the range that can continue to bluff on the turn and the other combos just give up.

    Kk 6 combos
    AA 6 combos
    AKs 1 combo
    57s 1 combo
    97s 1 combo
    T8s 1 combo
    54s 1 combo
    65s 1 combo
    76s 1 combo
    A2s, A4s, A5s (3 combos)

    Depending on how you view Axs and AK, which are kinda hard to get called by worse on the river. If villain uses gappers, weak Axs, and premiums AA-kk and AKs he can have quite a few bluffs.

    I see your point as the board is very static so it is hard to have a polarized range. Just thought i could come up with one for debate purposes. You can also throw in J9s and T9s which makes it pretty interesting as a check back or bet on the turn.

    Given your argument making an exploitive bet sizing on the river given its a $1\$2 game maybe best..something like $120 but I struggle to put him on a hand that calls 120 but folds for 325 on this texture. Stubborn kk? Curious what sizing and hands you would bet and get called by @Faustovaldez123
  • Faustovaldez123Faustovaldez123 RCP Coach Posts: 750 ✭✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    :Qh :8s :3c :3s :Ah

    Ep limp 2
    Ep2 raise 10
    LP Hero 3bet to 35
    Ep folds
    Ep2 calls.

    I think Hero can have a polarized range here @Faustovaldez123 lets say Hero is 3betting a weak iso to 35 with a polarized range preflop
    KK, AA, 75s-T8s, 54s-87s, AKs. A2s-A5s
    Im using suited as spades cause thats the only part of the range that can continue to bluff on the turn and the other combos just give up.

    Kk 6 combos
    AA 6 combos
    AKs 1 combo
    57s 1 combo
    97s 1 combo
    T8s 1 combo
    54s 1 combo
    65s 1 combo
    76s 1 combo
    A2s, A4s, A5s (3 combos)

    Depending on how you view Axs and AK, which are kinda hard to get called by worse on the river. If villain uses gappers, weak Axs, and premiums AA-kk and AKs he can have quite a few bluffs.

    I see your point as the board is very static so it is hard to have a polarized range. Just thought i could come up with one for debate purposes. You can also throw in J9s and T9s which makes it pretty interesting as a check back or bet on the turn.

    Given your argument making an exploitive bet sizing on the river given its a $1\$2 game maybe best..something like $120 but I struggle to put him on a hand that calls 120 but folds for 325 on this texture. Stubborn kk? Curious what sizing and hands you would bet and get called by @Faustovaldez123

    yeah its sorta fair @Austin but the turn card shifts him more to not many draws but i get it. Also Ax hands that would had been his bluffs now get there on the river sooo makes it harder for villain to call most of his range on the river.
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  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    :Qh :8s :3c :3s :Ah

    Ep limp 2
    Ep2 raise 10
    LP Hero 3bet to 35
    Ep folds
    Ep2 calls.

    I think Hero can have a polarized range here @Faustovaldez123 lets say Hero is 3betting a weak iso to 35 with a polarized range preflop
    KK, AA, 75s-T8s, 54s-87s, AKs. A2s-A5s
    Im using suited as spades cause thats the only part of the range that can continue to bluff on the turn and the other combos just give up.

    Kk 6 combos
    AA 6 combos
    AKs 1 combo
    57s 1 combo
    97s 1 combo
    T8s 1 combo
    54s 1 combo
    65s 1 combo
    76s 1 combo
    A2s, A4s, A5s (3 combos)

    Depending on how you view Axs and AK, which are kinda hard to get called by worse on the river. If villain uses gappers, weak Axs, and premiums AA-kk and AKs he can have quite a few bluffs.

    I see your point as the board is very static so it is hard to have a polarized range. Just thought i could come up with one for debate purposes. You can also throw in J9s and T9s which makes it pretty interesting as a check back or bet on the turn.

    Given your argument making an exploitive bet sizing on the river given its a $1\$2 game maybe best..something like $120 but I struggle to put him on a hand that calls 120 but folds for 325 on this texture. Stubborn kk? Curious what sizing and hands you would bet and get called by @Faustovaldez123

    yeah its sorta fair @Austin but the turn card shifts him more to not many draws but i get it. Also Ax hands that would had been his bluffs now get there on the river sooo makes it harder for villain to call most of his range on the river.

    Barreling the turn as a bluff seems kinda bad, even with a simi bluff with fd cause the board is unlikely to change and your really only hoping to get hands like 99-JJ fold by barreling the turn and can only triple barrel around 25% of the time on another spade, K or A, but K or A may actually help villains range i.e AQ or KQ. I think im likely to barrel 1\3 every street this hand because hero is so nutted, hard to give villain a calling range.
  • Yanming ZYanming Z Red Chipper Posts: 294 ✭✭✭
    I do think the sizing is a bit too big. When ever you bet you wanna ask what worse hands can call you? Given the line and how the hand was played, only AQ (3 combos) could take this line and maybe call a river shove. You opponent may have called you down with JJ, KK, or KQ, which you want him to call light. And there are no missed draws that you can represent, so betting small here is definitely better.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yanming Z wrote: »
    I do think the sizing is a bit too big. When ever you bet you wanna ask what worse hands can call you? Given the line and how the hand was played, only AQ (3 combos) could take this line and maybe call a river shove. You opponent may have called you down with JJ, KK, or KQ, which you want him to call light. And there are no missed draws that you can represent, so betting small here is definitely better.

    Hard for JJ or KK to call any river bet. As you stated basically hoping villain has the case Q for AQ. KQ likely folds preflop unless suited, so 1 combo. Majority if villains range looks like AQ. I think on a none ace river i would go small to keep value against all Qx and possibly JJ. I think the ace makes it cooler in order to be called.

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