The myth of poker talent -Fitzgerald - Best book ever

Charles PCharles P Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
This is the best book that I have ever read and the best videos. A tie with Ed Miller but the subject matter is not the same. I have read over 20 books and hundreds of videos.

I am writing a program that teaches correct play and this is invaluable to me. Now I just have to find correct hand ranges for fish, nit, lag, tag, unknown etc..

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Comments

  • bigburge10bigburge10 Red Chipper Posts: 1,308 ✭✭✭✭
    I haven't read this book. What's your favorite part of this book?
  • Charles PCharles P Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    All of it is good. The pages that I have reread a dozen times are chapter 2 pages 33 through 39.
  • MidnightFoxMidnightFox Red Chipper Posts: 321 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    I have that book. Strange book. Oddly written biography/strategy, with a silly title/thesis. Didn’t make it all the way through. Need to go back through it. Maybe I’ll get a different impression this time. The recent 3-bet video he did was alright.

    The Course(+videos) and Poker’s 1% are the best poker books. Followed by Sweeney’s Workbooks.
    :Jd :Tc
  • zampana1970zampana1970 Red Chipper Posts: 546 ✭✭✭
    I'm really liking Applications of No-Limit Hold em too. It's dense and without reading a lot here I'm not sure I would have understood as much as I do. Strong.
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭✭
    I was pretty underwhelmed with that book. It wasn't that the content was bad just nothing at all new or especially interesting. I also found the writing style was very odd which made it a much harder read than it should have been.
  • MidnightFoxMidnightFox Red Chipper Posts: 321 ✭✭✭
    Concerning your proposed training program, you might want to check out https://www.advancedpokertraining.com before you start your project.
    :Jd :Tc
  • The MuleThe Mule Red Chipper Posts: 768 ✭✭✭
    Different books will obviously appeal to different players depending on writing style and where they are in their development.

    For me, the Miller books and then the Janda books have been the most influential.

    A couple of books currently being written by two of the best poker thinkers I know are:
    Poker Owes You Nothing by C. Murray; and
    A Philosophy of Poker by J. Monaco.

    I am really looking forward to these !
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭✭
    Charles P wrote: »
    This is the best book that I have ever read and the best videos. A tie with Ed Miller but the subject matter is not the same. I have read over 20 books and hundreds of videos.

    I am writing a program that teaches correct play and this is invaluable to me. Now I just have to find correct hand ranges for fish, nit, lag, tag, unknown etc..

    @Charles P: this is the first that I am hearing about the book. Could you share what it's about and what theses are presented that you find so valuable?

    Thank you!
  • eugeniusjreugeniusjr Red Chipper Posts: 380 ✭✭✭
    I didn't know C. Murray's book already has a title!
  • Charles PCharles P Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    There are ideas in Fitzgerald's book that are covered elsewhere but the first time that I actually understood was when I read his book. Do a google search to see his credentials.
  • Charles PCharles P Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    For some of his credentials check out this link.
    https://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/assassinato/
  • The MuleThe Mule Red Chipper Posts: 768 ✭✭✭
    eugeniusjr wrote: »
    I didn't know C. Murray's book already has a title!

    I think it’s a working title I saw on a forum somewhere...

    I used some artistic licence with the Monaco title however.
  • eugeniusjreugeniusjr Red Chipper Posts: 380 ✭✭✭
    Crash Live Poker? I like the title. Intriguing. Bold. I hope he has a chapter or appendix on casinos with the best comps.
  • Charles PCharles P Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    If you look at his record, 1.7 million at Poker Stars. Internet games.
  • MidnightFoxMidnightFox Red Chipper Posts: 321 ✭✭✭
    Charles P wrote: »
    If you look at his record, 1.7 million at Poker Stars. Internet games.
    High performance in a given field does not necessarily translate into masterful facility with a systematic breakdown of said field.
    What I mean, is in the case of poker, great players are not necessarily great teachers.

  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    The Vegas 60/40 Method is my favorite book.
  • SaintsTigersSaintsTigers Red Chipper Posts: 238 ✭✭
    It's a little long winded. But it does have some a lot of good content.
  • Charles PCharles P Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    Hopefully one of the coaches will express an opinion. It's about 1% play.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Books are very hard to write, never mind write well. If you can appreciate them as the significant efforts they are, you'll get a lot out of them. The moment you hear some one say they didn't learn much from nearly any piece of work is the moment you met a poor reader. Pointing out the flaws of most poker books is no different than the whole pointy elbows thing for the most part.

    I'd venture to say that if you can reread, re-see, re-hear, re-feel or re-taste it many times and still learn something, maybe then you've got something good.
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    Books are very hard to write, never mind write well. If you can appreciate them as the significant efforts they are, you'll get a lot out of them. The moment you hear some one say they didn't learn much from nearly any piece of work is the moment you met a poor reader. Pointing out the flaws of most poker books is no different than the whole pointy elbows thing for the most part.

    So all books are good?

    I guess I am poor reader and/or have pointy elbows because I have read more than a few poker books that were largely a waste of time(Ken Warren and Sammy Farha's books come to mind)

  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    I'd venture to say that if you can reread, re-see, re-hear, re-feel or re-taste it many times and still learn something, maybe then you've got something good.

    Reminds me that I should go re-read a few books.
  • MidnightFoxMidnightFox Red Chipper Posts: 321 ✭✭✭
    kenaces wrote: »
    persuadeo wrote: »
    Books are very hard to write, never mind write well. If you can appreciate them as the significant efforts they are, you'll get a lot out of them. The moment you hear some one say they didn't learn much from nearly any piece of work is the moment you met a poor reader. Pointing out the flaws of most poker books is no different than the whole pointy elbows thing for the most part.

    So all books are good?

    I guess I am poor reader and/or have pointy elbows because I have read more than a few poker books that were largely a waste of time(Ken Warren and Sammy Farha's books come to mind)
    Don’t forget Phil Hellmuth’s book.
    I did like Mike Matusow’s book since it was an autobiography.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What my post did was opine that the the criticism of many significant efforts to communicate poker knowledge amount to a great deal of fussiness and ignoring what was good about them.

    As for Hellmuth et al - you guys are not supposed to like those books and poopooing them amounts to little. They were targeted for dudes going to home games in the 2000's intending to not lose their $25 for the umpteenth time. Does Joe Rebuy not deserve a book to read? To introduce someone to poker do you guys give them a pack of cards and Applications?

    I suggest employing a little discernment before you trash someone's six months of work, to restate differently. A book isn't really all about you and your needs necessarily - but that is a weakness of most poker players, I suppose.

    For the record, not a pixel of my post said all books are good - whatever that means. Most have some value, though.
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    What my post did was opine that the the criticism of many significant efforts to communicate poker knowledge amount to a great deal of fussiness and ignoring what was good about them.

    As for Hellmuth et al - you guys are not supposed to like those books and poopooing them amounts to little. They were targeted for dudes going to home games in the 2000's intending to not lose their $25 for the umpteenth time. Does Joe Rebuy not deserve a book to read? To introduce someone to poker do you guys give them a pack of cards and Applications?

    I suggest employing a little discernment before you trash someone's six months of work, to restate differently. A book isn't really all about you and your needs necessarily - but that is a weakness of most poker players, I suppose.

    For the record, not a pixel of my post said all books are good - whatever that means. Most have some value, though.

    I hardly trashed Fitgerald's book, and I don't think is a bad book. I just didn't get much out of it. - but of course I am a poor reader and have pointy elbows.

    Sadly, just because someone worked hard on something doesn't mean it is going worth our reading and/or buying it.

    Ironic that I buy dam near anything poker related anyway!
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    I didn't say you did trash Fitzgerald's book, I was speaking in general as the question became general. (As for the OP, it's merely enthusiasm unless he really has read every poker book and is also a authoritative strategist. Who fits that definition? Not me.)

    Again, a book that is valueless to you or Midnight Fox may very well be valuable to someone else. I have this feeling that when you bought Mr. Warren's book you sort of knew what you were getting or had the ability to find testimonials or reviews that gave you an idea of its level of content. Am I wrong?

    Nevertheless, your purchase of all poker content has given you the shape of the poker landscape (including as you may see it, its intellectual poverty) and likely impacts your appreciation of other works in ways you haven't thought of. The $15 you feel you wasted on Mr. Warren or Mr. Farha or others allows you to point out things to others, including your students, with more authority. Being a consumer of poker products is part of your professionalism and at a cost that is surprising low.

    I think the problem we're having here and in the general conversation over poker books that pops up here from time to time is that overall people don't really understand what a book's purpose is and what is owed by the reader and the writer.
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    persuadeo wrote: »
    I didn't say you did trash Fitzgerald's book, I was speaking in general as the question became general. (As for the OP, it's merely enthusiasm unless he really has read every poker book and is also a authoritative strategist. Who fits that definition? Not me.)

    Well you seem to imply that we shouldn't criticism any book or risk being a poor reader with pointy elbows. Which for some strange reason is a phrase that is growing on me.
    persuadeo wrote: »
    , a book that is valueless to you or Midgnight Fox may very well be valuable to someone else. I have this feeling that when you bought Mr. Warren's book you sort of knew what you were getting or had the ability to find testimonials or reviews that gave you an idea of its level of content. Am I wrong?

    When I started playing poker(15+ years ago) there were very few books, so I just bought everyone I could fine. My recollection is a bit hazy but I think I had maybe 6 books. Warrens book on LHE was maybe the 3rd or 4th book I read and even as a newbie I new it was terrible.
    persuadeo wrote: »
    , your purchase of all poker content has given you the shape of the poker landscape (including as you may see it, its intellectual poverty) and likely impacts your appreciation of other works in ways you haven't thought of. The $15 you feel you wasted on Mr. Warren or Mr. Farha or others allows you to point out things to others, including your students, with more authority. Being a consumer of poker products is part of your professionalism and at cost that is surprising low.

    I think the problem we're having here and in the general conversation over poker books that pops up here from time to time is that overall people don't really understand what a book's purpose is and what is owed by the reader and the writer.

    Clearly I don't mind paying for poker content as I get almost everything, almost like I have an addiction to poker books/videos/software. I don't really have any students these days. I am just enjoying studying and grinding these days.

    What do I owe the authors of all the content I have read/viewed?
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Again, I did not say you should not criticize a book. I said the tendency is to point out any flaw imaginable and not appreciate whatever good it offers and to whom.

    Hence the old pointy elbows poker meme, which I really am beginning to believe you didn't know. Maybe.

    What do you owe the authors of the content you have read? Nothing now! But maybe on the next one, a realization that it is always incomplete, could always have been revised further, is stuck in time, and the value is in thinking or working with it, positively or negatively. It's a conversation with the reader and not a bible.
  • Charles PCharles P Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    I certainly can not speak for anyone else but I did not understand the principals behind 1% until I read this book. Maybe just me.
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    Hence the old pointy elbows poker meme, which I really am beginning to believe you didn't know. Maybe.

    I have know idea what your are referencing with your "pointy elbows meme"????


  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is always Google.
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