5NL: KTo, Flop Top 2 IP, villain leads into me

GTOLife2020GTOLife2020 Hudson Valley, NYRed Chipper Posts: 875 ✭✭✭
edited December 2017 in Online Poker Hands
Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database

NL Holdem $0.05(BB)
SB ($2.03)
HERO ($5.37)
BTN ($7.05)

Dealt to Hero T:heart: K:diamond:

BTN Folds, SB Raises To $0.13 (Rem. Stack: 1.88), HERO Calls $0.1 (Rem. Stack: 5.22)

Flop ($0.30) 3:diamond: T:diamond: K:heart:
SB Bets $0.3 (Rem. Stack: 1.58), HERO Raises To $0.9 (Rem. Stack: 4.32), SB Folds

HERO wins $1.46

Having some confusion on when to call or when to start building the pot. I've blown a few guys off of flopped monsters lately (and there have been many who went the distance with me so maybe it's just normal) and I just want to make sure that I'm not getting too jumpy, too early and scaring away guaranteed money. I'm also getting a little scared of bad cards coming, myself. Here, I'm thinking that if I call and the turn is a diamond, I'm in a difficult spot if he bets into me large as he's repping the flush and I have only roughly 20% chance to river my full house. At best.

Comments

  • Brad CBrad C Red Chipper Posts: 181 ✭✭
    edited December 2017
    I'm not that great but for what it's worth in this spot I'd prob just call sometimes. Looks like a standard cbet spot from villain

    I think raising is okay too but it def puts too pair on notice pretty early.and makes easier fold for some draws or mid pairs that might have tried to double barrel you
  • GTOLife2020GTOLife2020 Hudson Valley, NYRed Chipper Posts: 875 ✭✭✭
    Brad C wrote: »
    I'm not that great but for what it's worth in this spot I'd prob just call sometimes.

    I think raising is okay too but it def puts too pair on notice pretty early.

    It screams top 2 or a set but at the same time, I'd rather get the money in when I'm clearly ahead and not after villain has shoved the turn or river and I'm not anywhere near as close to knowing where I stand. Just putting my thoughts out there so better players can see where I'm coming from mentally here.
  • Brad CBrad C Red Chipper Posts: 181 ✭✭
    edited December 2017
    yeah it's interesting raising here kinda seems like a similar but opposite reaction to people who start over folding to flop c bets. I guess it all depends on why you're doing it and what information you're acting on.

    Like does his bet even mean anything here? Do you know how often he's c betting?

    I'd also quickly look at this players attempt to steal % from SB as well to get a sense of what their range is.

    Yeah I hear ya- will be great to hear from some of the heavy hitters... I've been asking a lot of questions so also want to provide input where I can so I'm not always just taking lol
  • CubanBCubanB Red Chipper Posts: 104 ✭✭
    I disagree that raising this flop in position screams monster. It conveys strength, but there are plenty of draws that an aggressive player could be raising in this spot as a semi-bluff.

    We have top 2 pair with a flop SPR of about 6 and we're not super deep. We want to get stacks in, so it's a matter of figuring out how best to do that, which requires some knowledge of how our opponent plays and that info is missing from this post. Sometimes you will want to call (when, say, Villain cbets and barrels with 100% of his PFR range) and sometimes we will want to raise (if, say, Villain would call your raise 100% of the time). The best way forward will be opponent-dependent.

    Against your average microstakes player, I'd probably just call here and hope he continues to bet the turn for us. We've currently got a hand worth 3 streets of value, we're in position, and we're not deep so we shouldn't have trouble getting it in.
  • GTOLife2020GTOLife2020 Hudson Valley, NYRed Chipper Posts: 875 ✭✭✭
    CubanB wrote: »
    I disagree that raising this flop in position screams monster. It conveys strength, but there are plenty of draws that an aggressive player could be raising in this spot as a semi-bluff.

    We have top 2 pair with a flop SPR of about 6 and we're not super deep. We want to get stacks in, so it's a matter of figuring out how best to do that, which requires some knowledge of how our opponent plays and that info is missing from this post. Sometimes you will want to call (when, say, Villain cbets and barrels with 100% of his PFR range) and sometimes we will want to raise (if, say, Villain would call your raise 100% of the time). The best way forward will be opponent-dependent.

    Against your average microstakes player, I'd probably just call here and hope he continues to bet the turn for us. We've currently got a hand worth 3 streets of value, we're in position, and we're not deep so we shouldn't have trouble getting it in.

    Thanks for the post. The information you point out that is missing is such because it was an Ignition table (anonymous) and I had very little info on villain. He seemed like a bad 'reg' who played ABC but was clearly capable of not letting go of one. Sure enough, he started tilt shoving the very hand after this and was gone before I could get to him again.
  • GTOLife2020GTOLife2020 Hudson Valley, NYRed Chipper Posts: 875 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    38/28/0, Agg 56%, cbet 8/9, fold to steal 2/2 = Villain over 42 hands total, and this includes what he did after the hand with me.

    *One XRay note: Bets strong with strong made hand (AcTd, board info missing)

    I mean, w/ that info you'd think he would have at least called my raise, right?
  • CubanBCubanB Red Chipper Posts: 104 ✭✭
    I dunno. It's a small sample size but 38/28 and a cbet% of ~90% makes me think he's a bad aggressive player and probably has a ton of air in his cbet range. So I'd probably be even more inclined to just call flop, hoping he'll continue the aggression rather than raise and risk blowing him off his garbage.
  • Brad CBrad C Red Chipper Posts: 181 ✭✭
    Yeah- I agree with Cubans post above.

    As for what you said about the info provided - I would actually interpret that dataset as meaning the opposite of what you mentioned. I would think that with that high of a cbet % the majority of what he's betting is air., so more likely he folds to your cbet.

    Like when you're going to the flop 38% of the time, in a micro game, you gotta do something with all those hands and so he's tryna either raise or fold to get out of them.

    Once you re raise tho, it gives him an easy way to hide wtvr crap hand he was workin with.
  • GTOLife2020GTOLife2020 Hudson Valley, NYRed Chipper Posts: 875 ✭✭✭
    @CubanB and @Brad C: Thanks for your posts and your help. I don't understand how I could have misinterpreted that but I certainly did. Thanks for yet another thread that helped me learn something important.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Strong hand on a wet texture, raise it up. Don't let them realize their equity for free. On a rainbow board I may flat.
  • GTOLife2020GTOLife2020 Hudson Valley, NYRed Chipper Posts: 875 ✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    Strong hand on a wet texture, raise it up. Don't let them realize their equity for free. On a rainbow board I may flat.

    Of course. The problem in the last 2k hands is that they call, call, call, call no matter what and unfortunately, they keep hitting their river.

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