Hand #2

MADDOGMADDOG Red Chipper Posts: 8 ✭✭
I know I'm behind the times since I just started this workbook, but better late than never right??? Anyways, I made a couple comments on other posts for Hand 1, but I figured I would put my own answers out there for Hand 2. Would love to hear your thoughts and insights on my ranges:

My Preflop Range is still just 14.3% based off Ed Millers frequency recommendations in "The Course." This includes 22+, A2s+, AQo+, All Suited Broadways, and suited connectors 76s+.

The spewy BB calls and the Flop comes down: Jh8s4c.

I have a range advantage and positional advantage, and when the BB checks, I'm looking to CBet a range of 71% or 123 combos. This includes Sets, Overpairs, Top Pair, TT-99, middle pair, and Ace High hands. To answer the book questions, I am continuation betting my JT, 99-TT & AQ.

When the BB calls again, the turn brings: Jc. With the Check from the BB I get a little more cautious and I start to doubt my fold equity. I only continue with about 52.5% of my hands or 62 out of 118 combos. This includes quads, Full Houses, 3 of a Kind, Over Pairs, TT-99, Flush Draws, and OESDs. Again for the book questions, I am CBetting my AA, TT and my Draws.

Finally the River doesn't bring much in a scare card with the 3s. The opponent again checks and at this point I am mostly value betting 72.5% of my range or 45 combos. This would include Quads, Full Houses, 3 of a kind, Overpairs, and TT-99. I am still betting 2/3 pot so as not to give away any bet sizing tells on my range which would allow him to know the strength of my hand.

Welcoming any feedback and look forward to hearing from the Forum!



  • tfaziotfazio Red Chipper Posts: 819 ✭✭✭
    Just a reminder we have a Skype group that meets Thursday 9pm est to discuss hands from the workbook msg @derdonker with Skype name to join
  • MADDOGMADDOG Red Chipper Posts: 8 ✭✭
    Tfazio. Wish I could make it, but during the week is no good for me for a skype group
  • Tim FTim F Red Chipper Posts: 4 ✭✭

    First of all, thanks for the recommendation on Ed Miller/The Course. I'll get it and read it. I read Steve Selbrides Donkey Poker books and found out about Splitsuit and on Splitsuit found out about RedChip. I'm just beginning my journey. I found Exercise #1 a little confusing but was probably reading more into it than I needed to. I've attached my worksheet for #2.

    After reading your hand analysis I would say you opened a little tighter than I would, 14 to 20 percent but after the flop we end up pretty much in the same place on the turn and the river. The only question I have for you is why wouldn't you Cbet with your entire range after the flop. Honestly, I'm beginning to think I Cbet too frequently and may need to slow down.

  • MADDOGMADDOG Red Chipper Posts: 8 ✭✭

    Thanks for the response. I have a ton of book recommendations if you want them. You could also check out the Smart Poker Study Podcast which covers a lot of good topics. If you want more study recommendations feel free to send me a personal message and I can give you a full list.

    As for why I don't CBet my entire range after the flop here is why:
    There is a Red Chip video by W34z3l that breaks down the principles of CBetting:
    -How vulnerable is our holding?
    -Which barreling opportunities will we have?
    -How many streets of value is our hand worth?
    -What are our opponents tendencies?

    Even with my tighter range of 14.3% on the flop, I have a lot of hands that don't have many, if any streets of value right now. Hands like 22, 33, 55, 66, 77, KQs, QTs, and KTs probably don't have more than one street of value, even after the villain checks. In that case, I would like to a) give those hands a chance to improve by checking back and b) firing a later barrel closer to the river if it is checked back again.

    That is the logic I was taking into why I wouldn't CBet my entire range. Also, I believe it is Doug Hull who talks about keeping out Cbetting frequencies somewhere around 70%. I don't want to build a pot with a hand that I am just going to fold to turn aggression, so if I CBet with the hands I discussed up high, can I hold up to a check/raise or a call and then Turn Donk bet? We need to plan all of our streets when we do this, so I tried to choose hands that have a little more value if I face a different line from this spewy villain. Hope that gives a little insight into why I thought that way. Feel free to talk me through the logic you used on your template. I will look at it a little later and see if I can provide any feedback.

  • MADDOGMADDOG Red Chipper Posts: 8 ✭✭
    @Tim F I didn't actually tag you on this one before. Now you're tagged. Love to hear feedback!
  • itsgoldenitsgolden Los Angeles, CARed Chipper Posts: 50 ✭✭
    edited January 2018
    @Tim F and @MADDOG your exchange about Cbets reminded me of a couple of Red Chip Poker podcasts on the topic.
    Anyways, here's my take. Let me know if you have any insights on my questions at the bottom.

    PF Range:
    14.9% or 198 Combos

    Flop Range:
    60.6% or 109 combos
    88+, 44, AJs+, KJs+, QJs, T9s, AJo+, KQo+

    Turn Range:
    25.7% or 26 combos
    AJo, AQs+(c), AJs, KQs(c), KJs, QJs, T9s, JJ, J8, 44, 88,

    River Range:
    73.6% or 17 combos
    AJs, KSs, JJ, 88, 44, Ajo (not QJs)

    Two questions that came up for me. If anyone can share your thoughts on one or both that would be great. Thanks!

    Question 1
    I included AJo, KQo, and ATo in my PF range (14.9% or 198 combos) and also wondered about including more suited wheel aces (A4s-A2s). In what situations would opening A4s-A2s be preferred over KQo? If I'm facing short stacks I'm liking big cards over suited wheel aces but if we have deep stacks and going multi-way I think it's better to have suited wheel aces in this range. Thoughts?

    Question 2
    I'm guessing my turn range is too nitty. If so, what hands should I be double barreling on the turn with the Jh 8s 4c Jc board? FYI- my turn range was at 25.7% or 26 combos (AJo, AQs+(c), AJs, KQs(c), KJs, QJs, T9s, JJ, J8, 44, 88). Should I be continuing with Aces? I kept thinking not many worse hands would be calling.

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