Attacking limpers IP

AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 4,736 ✭✭✭✭✭
Standard limp fest at 1\3 game. Recognize a few players being tight weak and a couple unknowns. Main villain is tight weak. Has been dealt two big pockets KK and JJ since I sat down. He 3 bet his KK from 15 to 35 for a squeeze so his sizing is small. He bought in pretty short but is up to around $200

Ep1 limps 3
mp1 ($212) limps 3 (main villain)
MP2 limps 3
Co limps 3
Btn Hero ($300) :Th :7h raise to 25
*I've been active already 3 bet twice first orbit.
Mp1 calls Everyone else folds

Flop ($60) :Kh :7s :2c
Mp1 checks
Hero bets $40
Mp1 calls

Turn ($140) :5h
Mp1 checks
Hero all in
Mp1?

Rainbow board so im putting him on KQ-KT, 22, and that's about it. Maybe 88-TT. I block 2nd pair..so option on the turn check it back or shove?

Comments

  • Cereal KillerCereal Killer Red Chipper Posts: 76 ✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    Standard limp fest at 1\3 game. Recognize a few players being tight weak and a couple unknowns. Main villain is tight weak. Has been dealt two big pockets KK and JJ since I sat down. He 3 bet his KK from 15 to 35 for a squeeze so his sizing is small. He bought in pretty short but is up to around $200

    Ep1 limps 3
    mp1 ($212) limps 3 (main villain)
    MP2 limps 3
    Co limps 3
    Btn Hero ($300) :Th :7h raise to 25
    *I've been active already 3 bet twice first orbit.
    Mp1 calls Everyone else folds

    Flop ($60) :Kh :7s :2c
    Mp1 checks
    Hero bets $40
    Mp1 calls

    Turn ($140) :5h
    Mp1 checks
    Hero all in
    Mp1?

    Rainbow board so im putting him on KQ-KT, 22, and that's about it. Maybe 88-TT. I block 2nd pair..so option on the turn check it back or shove?

    My image is weak tight due to card deadness at the moment. I'm showing down hands I've played aggressively that are nowhere near the nuts, but I play so rarely over the last 3 sessions that I'm getting obnoxious speeches and folds from openers that I have raised preflop. I commonly see 2 or 3 callers (5X + 1BB per limper) when I do get called and am whiffing a lot and giving up to donks on the flop or turn. How solid is your read? 2/3 pot seems like a legit bet and you've been active. I would call the flop here to turn a K into a bluff catcher against someone I recognize as able to make this semi-bluff. If your overall image is LAG and I'm aware of that, I think I snap call with any set, K, or pocket pair 88-TT if I'm in V's shoes. Is there any way to widen his range here or do you know him that well? Everything in the range you assigned beats you and I don't know what your fold equity is here, but it doesn't seem like it could be very substantial.
    Your showdown equity is maybe 38% at best if he has KJ without a heart. I like checking back and evaluating the river since you get a ton of information there in position. How often does he need to fold to make the turn jam correct? Probably way more often than he would.
  • SullySully Red Chipper Posts: 690 ✭✭✭
    villain needs to fold about 22-25% in my rough estimation for this to be profitable. When you looked into his soul did you see 22-25% folds? :)
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9
    @Austin : why attacking with T7s ? Why not limp behind ? I think T7s is too weak to power play when call - which may happen if you've a very active image.

    Also, Villain is weak tight. He called a standard flop c-bet on a very dry K high board. Does he call with anything else than TP ? And is he able to fold them when you dub?
    Or would he be sticky on a 147$ shove into a 140$ pot? (IMHO it looks bluffy - except if you do it regularly? - ; I think you can easily get the same effect / have the same FE by shoving ~100-115$, and you save some chips if he reshove or call and you don't improve on river)
  • RoblivionRoblivion Red Chipper Posts: 149 ✭✭✭
    I don't think this villain is ever folding here, given stack size, so you should probably just check back and look to improve.

    I'm all for punishing limpers, but i don't think this is the spot for it, since you mentioned you've been active and you're almost certainly going to get called by at least one of these dudes. Once you get called by this specific guy, it's kinda worst case scenario because of his weird stack size and this specific board. I think I just check it back and see what the turn brings.
  • hopeless_fish dhopeless_fish d Red Chipper Posts: 45 ✭✭
    Attack limpers with all your range you woukd open with in that position, make the raise big.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 4,736 ✭✭✭✭✭
    villain had Kk for top set and river i hit a useless 7 for trips vs his boat. I later stacked him raising KK on QTx board where he stacked off with QJ. I wanted to include this cause 0 chance he folds Kx in the hand i posted so turn shove was pretty bad.
  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    If you've already been active with 3-betting...I'd slow my roll a bit. It's a weird rule of thumb for me, but if I've gotten away with a steal an orbit before, and I've been 3-betting (especially non premium hands that don't show-down) I tend to dial back my steal frequency until I get a show down (or I show people premium and pretend to be exhaserbated. UGH. THAT'S MY 3rd AK IN 30 MINUTES. COME ON PEOPEL!??!). People just won't give you credit for always having it (cause...you don't). I'd prob just either limp behind here, or potentially fold it. I know people might cry about this, but if a stand raise to say $15 won't do it....and if I think I'm gonna start to get resistance when I've already stolen a few cookies from the cookie jar...well, making it a 3~ SPR with a super sub-par hand even on the button ends up in me generally reaching from 3 more $100 chips as I'm forced to over barrel. It looks like on the flop this guy has a king. Can he give up K10? Will he put his foot down with AK, KQ or even KJ? If so, just take the free river to improve. But I also don't find a fold, as sometimes if your standard open is has to be this big, then the ole middling suited 2 gapper just finds itself not able to apply enough pressure. Your just not deep enough my friend.
  • Wiki_LeaksWiki_Leaks Red Chipper Posts: 543 ✭✭✭
    Dont level yourself into changing tour strategy just because you look active. They will have their suspisions but no evidence.

    Dont let image superceed range construction. Let your frequencies develop an image. Forcing bad spots burns money. Let the correct card distribution come to you
  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    Frequencies is a part of strategy. As is using image (at least my strategy). Take it or leave it. I choose to 3-bet KQ often, but not every time. I'd rather steal with A3o as a 3-bet early in the session rather than later, as I'm a pretty active player. I don't think consisistently putting in 1/12th your chips, and if you C-bet your in trouble when you get called with all suited 2 gappers in a solid strategy. Your just gonna burn through too many chips, you'll have to many weak hands in your range. But as always, it's just opinions.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wikileaks is right. Here "image" - a secondary poker concept - again is your motivator. Are you a CLP guy, by chance?
  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    Uh not to my knowledge, I had to google what it was, I've never read or watched any of their content, but I've seen them playing on LATB. Just saying, raising to this size, hero is probably hoping to take the blinds, I don't think every time that every time we see a suited 2 gapper and limpers in front of us we should say "HA, stacks and frequencies be damned, this is a prime steal hand!". Yes, your IP, and TBH I mean I raise a lot worse than this trying to steal, but I do try to strike a somewhat decent balance between frequency and image. And I also have noticed that my sessions lasting between 1-3 hours go a lot better than 4+ hour sessions. Am I fresher? Or is it the fact that people give my 3-bet's and open's a lot more credit early in the session? Or am I just imagining it all? W.e, I'd just check the turn and not try to push him off a strong K, let's check the reveal. Lol, KK. Another limped called premium stacks a fellow aggressive RPC. Ah, my life.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    (sorry was asking Austin, who mentions image a lot and is a big Bart Hanson concern)
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 4,736 ✭✭✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    Wikileaks is right. Here "image" - a secondary poker concept - again is your motivator. Are you a CLP guy, by chance?

    Just rcp and latb. I tend to pay attention to people's comments though about my image or other people's image. The other day when I posted my hero call with 22, a few hands after that I was thinking about jamming on a turn with a combo draw and i heard the comment "must be 22 again."

    Range construction before image well noted. Thank you all for your input.

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