Working on over betting and bombing over and got blown up

Jason RobisonJason Robison Red Chipper Posts: 16 ✭✭
1/3 playing for about 3 hours and running like s***. AA cracked by a wheel on the river -$175
JJ cracked by a 6 high club flush against an old guy.
Two clubs on the flop, 9 high board $52 in the pot, heads-up.
Villain checks, I over bet the pot $100, villain calls.
Villain checks a brick on the turn, I only have $90 left and know he is on a draw and not going anywhere if I bet so I check.
River brings a club villain checks, I check back and he flips over 6c4c.
I could have represented a higher flush shoving on the river but i don't think he could think on that level. Two orbits before was a "Splash pot", the house put $200 in the middle pre flop. He won with 86o making a straight and ran hot for two orbits after that stacking up about 900 and sucking out with bad calls. The flop bet was to induce a fold and fold out any over pairs and draws.
THIS IS THE HAND THAT GOT ME UP FROM THE TABLE.
After dropping almost 3 buy-ins i get back to about $285.
UTG limp
V1 $195 MP limp, this was his first hand at the table
Hero CO :Jh :Js raise $12
V2 BB all in for $27
UTG fold
V1 call
Hero shoves, V1 call flips over :AH: :9d
flop :3h :6d :Kd
turn :Ad
river :5d
This over bet was to induce a fold from V1 as i put him on a Ax, KQo, KJo, JT, small to mid pockets looking to see a cheep flop.
I obviously have this all wrong, what should my line have been in these two situations using the over bet/bombing over philosophy. Should i adjust my sizing, was i not deep enough, does over betting/bombing over not apply to these situations, was there a better line to take ?
the session ran bad over all with other bad run outs.

Comments

  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd suggest working first on mindset and controlling emotions and second on the strategy and hand analysis.
  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭
    You did the right thing and got a rough result. Welcome to the world of poker, come for the fun and thrill of the game, Leave with the bad beat stories? Please sir, not like this. Anyways, my experience with overbetting is make sure that you play around with the math first, and use it in the right scenario where you are polarized. If Vs at the table won’t call without the nuts, it’s no use. Also, make sure it’s balanced with bluffs as well.
  • Jason RobisonJason Robison Red Chipper Posts: 16 ✭✭
    edited January 22
    thanks jfarrow, Moishetreats, no tilt this session just couldn't get anything going. For the most part i will tilt rarely, if you are referring to my intro. Not tilting is not an option, i think it happens to everyone and is built into the game. I do however take a break when i recognize that i am on tilt. Any suggestions on the over betting or other lines would be appreciated.
  • Paul_KPaul_K DFWRed Chipper Posts: 159 ✭✭
    edited January 23
    I think that going heads up to the flop you could consider just calling and playing poker with your big advantage over a limp/call range and in position. The huge shove is just likely to only get called by high equity hands while folding out the hands we crush. I can see wanting to fold out KQ/AQ, but why force out small/mid PP, AJ-A2 , KJ-JT which make up a huge portion of his range. These are the hands you make money from.

    You were called by a hand that should have folded, which is a great result. Just caught his 1 in 4 this time.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23
    UTG limp
    V1 $195 MP limp, this was his first hand at the table
    Hero CO :Jh :Js raise $12
    V2 BB all in for $27
    UTG fold
    V1 call
    Hero shoves, V1 call flips over :AH: :9d
    flop :3h :6d :Kd
    turn :Ad
    river :5d
    This over bet was to induce a fold from V1 as i put him on a Ax, KQo, KJo, JT, small to mid pockets looking to see a cheep flop.
    I obviously have this all wrong

    No, I don't think so. I like the way you played this hand.

    However....
    JJ cracked by a 6 high club flush against an old guy.
    Two clubs on the flop, 9 high board $52 in the pot, heads-up.
    Villain checks, I over bet the pot $100, villain calls.
    Villain checks a brick on the turn, I only have $90 left and know he is on a draw and not going anywhere if I bet so I check....The flop bet was to induce a fold and fold out any over pairs and draws.

    This represents some very confused concepts.

    First, of course you're right than anyone who calls a ridiculous bet like that with a 6 high flush draw with literally 0 implied odds (I mean, he did check the river after all) is also not going to fold if you represented a bigger flush!

    But look at the math. You're betting $100 on the flop, leaving you only $90 to bet with on the turn. On the turn you can only offer him 3.8:1 odds. Now technically he should not even have called that. But first, I'd offer him more reasonable ways to make a mistake. For example, betting $50 on the flop, offering him 2:1, and then$140 on the turn offering him again roughly 2:1. He should never have called your flop bet, so these bet sizes are more reasonable to allow your opponent to make a mistake. By overbetting the pot, you're encouraging him to play correctly against you.

    Finally, your thinking about the turn bet is wrong. Even if you have $1 left on the turn, you still need to bet it. It doesn't matter that he's now correct to call, you still have to bet it.


  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 4,375 ✭✭✭✭
    Jamming turn on earlier 9xx cc board. No reason to slow down. Not sure why your over betting so much with your specific hand. Your range should be a bit more poled. Something like KK+, sets, AcQc. Where your putting 88-QQ in a tough spot. 6 high flush draw, maybe he had a gutter to go with it being 9 high flop? His equity isnt bad.

    Onto the main hand. Your preflop raise is pretty small. Usual open is around $12 (4x) and $15 (5x) or more on a looser table. Given the dynamics of this game and two limpers I would be making it $20-$25 preflop here. Making it $12 worked out cause you get to 4 bet jam over the top. At that point you got the money in good. Time to say nice hand and move on. Hit up the ATM and embrace the variance.

    I played against a drunk guy like that at a $1\$3 game. Was in for around $1200. Hit up the ATM came back and stacked him with A9 vs K3o. Was a super high variance game getting 30bb in preflop to iso him with constant 3 bets using a merged range. Thats what a bankroll is for though.

    Doesn't matter how hard you get it, its that you get hit and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    Onto the main hand. Your preflop raise is pretty small. Usual open is around $12 (4x) and $15 (5x) or more on a looser table. Given the dynamics of this game and two limpers I would be making it $20-$25 preflop here.

    Yes, was also going to say this - $15 would be absolute min I'd bet.

  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Post is a mess, only the saints of this forum will go through it.
  • Jason RobisonJason Robison Red Chipper Posts: 16 ✭✭
    thanks for the help guys, over betting is something that looked like it would be good to add to my game but i still think that my execution is a little off. Over betting in one situations didn't allow me to leave enough behind so i think i was not deep enough then. Also the card room that i was playing at is filled with maniacs that will make bad calls and regularly hit when doing so (not just against me in this situation) but also have allowed me to stack up 1200 in numerous sessions. i am always looking for ways to generate folds when i need them and this unfortunately didn't workout for me in this session. I did try it again with no luck and another bad beat that i will ask a question in another discussion about.
  • Ruxton_AtheistRuxton_Atheist Red Chipper Posts: 146 ✭✭✭
    I keep putting more dry food in the cat bowls, and they keep eating it. I've tried wet food too, and still they eat. Guys, if I keep adding more food, at some point they have to stop, right? RIGHT???

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