Top Pair in multiway hand

messi367messi367 Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
6 handed $1/3 game in local cardroom.

CO limps and I have AsQs in the sb with about $800. The table has been loose and passive. I raise to $20. BB calls and he has about $500 and is a loose passive player. The CO calls, she is a little loose and has $135 left. Flop comes QdTh6h. I bet out $30 into a $54 pot($6 taken out for rake). I have TPTK on a wet board. BB calls and CO goes all in for $135. I call and BB calls. So the pot is now $459 and the BB has about $400 left. Turn comes 7c. I check and BB checks. River comes 4s. We both check.

This hand being multiway kind of confused me, I know that you are not supposed to bluff really when somebody else is all in. But in this hand I have TPTK and BB just called on the flop so there is a good chance I am ahead. I think he would have shoved with a stronger hand on the flop so should I have bet for value at any point?

[I will post the results of the hand in a week. My bad if I posted the results of my hands in the past right away. I realize that the hand reviews are more about the concepts rather than the the results of one hand. And these hands should help other people in similar situations.]

Comments

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Las VegasPosts: 4,960 -
    I suspect the principle you're bringing up here is that you're not supposed to bluff into a dry side pot? But here you can't really bluff since you have TPTK. Feels like against this player type a small river bet is in order. If they're passive they're less likely to bet their missed draws.
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  • messi367messi367 Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    edited May 6
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    I suspect the principle you're bringing up here is that you're not supposed to bluff into a dry side pot? But here you can't really bluff since you have TPTK. Feels like against this player type a small river bet is in order. If they're passive they're less likely to bet their missed draws.

    Yes I was talking about bluffing into a dry side pot but I don't even know why I brought that up honestly, it was just in my head because there was a sidepot and I knew you weren't supposed to bluff in these pots. But looking at it now I could've gone for value against a loose passive player here.

    So you would bet the river and not the turn to get value from draws?

    And would an underbet of $150 make sense? I don't make a lot of river underbets yet but this could be a good spot for one..?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Las VegasPosts: 4,960 -
    I think after the flop action I'm a little concerned that if we get stacks in we're usually beat, so I'm not sure on the best line. If this is someone who will pay off with KQ and KJ, you might try betting turn. Usual problem of playing out of position. It feels like we should get one more street, but when and how is tricky.

    But unless this player is playing something like 66 strangely, their twin call on the flop makes this feel like a spot where they're capped and you're ahead. I guess a passive player may play QTs like that, but you and the board block that down to a single combo. Do they show up with QTo here ever?

    I can see betting $150 on the end. If they are really sticky, maybe your turn check buys you a call of a shove on the end when they decide your draw bricked out?
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  • KossKoss Red Chipper Posts: 82 ✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Usual problem of playing out of position. It feels like we should get one more street, but when and how is tricky.

    Normally I think we need to go for value on the turn here, because a loose passive player will have a ton of draws despite the wild flop action. There's a lot less value to be had on a bricked river than on a wet boarded turn.

    This is a somewhat common problem in these deeper live games with multiway action. Any reasonable bet size we make is going to be interpreted as enormous.

    I think there are two reasonable options. 1. Shove turn. 2. Go for small value on a bricked river. The presence of an all-in player and dry side pot makes the math in this spot a little different. Normally when we bet big against a draw and they fold we win the pot, but that might not happen here, so that needs to enter our calculations. So outcomes are 1. We shove, BB folds, we lose to CO. 2. We shove, BB folds, we beat CO. 3. We shove, BB calls, we win both pots. 4. Shove, call, win side pot, lose main. 5. Shove, call, lose both. 6 thru x. with similar possibilities on a river value bet.

    I'd actually have to crunch this through equilab or something and spend some decent time on it, and this being a sort of rare spot I'm OK with my poker math brain not having a close approximation of the solution. We probably have pretty good equity against the CO range, At the table I'd probably just shove the turn thinking we still have the best hand here most of the time.
  • MackTysonMackTyson Red Chipper Posts: 1
    edited May 7
    Lead Turn $150 and if you didn’t then definitely bet for some value on River.
  • messi367messi367 Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    My bad I forgot to post the results to this one to anyone interested. Thanks guys for your input on this hand.

    I ended up winning the pot, nobody showed but CO said she was open ended (So KJ) and the BB said he had a flush draw and turned a straight draw as well. So in this situation he wouldn't have called a bet on the river but I probably could've gotten more value on the turn. And I feel like the shove is the only play here with stack sizes. BB has less than the pot in his stack.

    A bet on the turn in this spot I think would get called by enough hands in BBs range to be a value bet. I agree w/ Koss's quote here, "Normally I think we need to go for value on the turn here, because a loose passive player will have a ton of draws despite the wild flop action." I think I would be getting raised by better hands on the flop.

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