2/5 River Decision

Skors3Skors3 Red Chipper Posts: 669 ✭✭✭
2/5 casino - 6 handed. The table had been playing pretty snuggly as the three marks have all been felted. Two players discussed leaving as they felt they weren't going to make any money at the table as it was and the thought ran through my mind as well. Villain stated that he was going to try and wake the table up. He started opening a lot.

Villain SB $580 - recently aggressive but I think he probably is generally pretty active. He is waiting for his PLO seat to open up.

Hero UTG $950 :Ks:Qs - I had been involved in a few pots recently but nothing big.

I open to $20 and Villain calls.

FLOP $45 :Qh:Tc:7d

Villain check/$85
Hero $35/Calls

TURN $215 :Qh:Tc:7d:3s

Villain $125
Hero Calls

RIVER $465 :Qh:Tc:7d:3s:7c

Villain shoves $350 - He takes his time. Also, while deciding he gets called for his PLO seat.
Hero ???

Comments

  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    Well what hands do you think he is doing this with that now beat you that you were ahead of on the turn? Or flop
  • sparkyAAsparkyAA Red Chipper Posts: 160 ✭✭
    edited March 2016
    ^Agree with Gabby. By calling the flop and turn, you must think you are ahead with the KQ. The hands you are ahead of are many straight draws (which could have taken this line) or a weak one pair hand. The 7 on the river helps only A7, 87 type of hands that make up a small part of his range. Once he check raises you on the flop, be aware that this is going to be a big pot. You have to realize this ahead of time or you will be put in a lot of awkward spots with one pair hands. as played, ship it and stack his chips. He would have most likely raised preflop with 10 10, AA-QQ, AQ. 77 is now tough for him to have, probably wouldn't have made the play on the flop with 33. What other hands beat you? Q10 is the only one i could really see him having, as well as a bunch of busted draws.

    The moral of this hand is that it is important to have a plan for the whole hand, and think through your opponent's check-raises. If this comes from a passive player I'm usually hitting the muck on the flop
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't think his turn sizing looks like a draw in general, even if he is a PLO player who might be inclined to play 98/KJ very hard. The turn is a blank yet he uses it to put more money in the pot. He has sized his bets to get everything in. I would think through other hands he has played and when he took this line to help me decide.
  • SullySully Red Chipper Posts: 780 ✭✭✭
    It sure looks like villain wants you around. Relatively small c/r, you call, brick turn, relatively small turn bet. Doesn't look like he's trying to scare someone
  • Skors3Skors3 Red Chipper Posts: 669 ✭✭✭
    GabeyJ wrote: »
    Well what hands do you think he is doing this with that now beat you that you were ahead of on the turn? Or flop

    In time, I couldn't think of many. But he was playing a pretty wide range. I had mixed feelings about the river :7c .

    I think deep down I posted this hand because I have only begun to play 2/5 regularly over the last 3 months (I attempted last summer and was quickly sent back to 1/2) and his line was aggressive with a large river shove that I rarely encounter, and all the while I held a marginal hand. It's seems like spots like these separate the men from the boys, so to speak, and I want to see if I am navigating them correctly.
  • Skors3Skors3 Red Chipper Posts: 669 ✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    I don't think his turn sizing looks like a draw in general, even if he is a PLO player who might be inclined to play 98/KJ very hard. The turn is a blank yet he uses it to put more money in the pot. He has sized his bets to get everything in. I would think through other hands he has played and when he took this line to help me decide.


    So, what's your default plan with relative unknowns? He wasn't at the table very long and I had not played with him previously.

    I tend to think, correctly or not, that players try to push me off hands as I am generally one of the tighter players at the table. This then takes my decision making process from 'what hands do I beat' to 'is this guy trying to push me around.'
  • SullySully Red Chipper Posts: 780 ✭✭✭
    Add this question if it helps;

    He knows I'm tight. After the call of the c/r he knows I probably have at least a good Q and maybe even an overpair. He is still firing, OOP ......hmmm. Is villain counting on tight players like me to make more calling mistakes when married to top pair or folding mistakes with top pair?

  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Couple separate issues here:

    1. I would not let the fear of getting pushed around get into your head. If you want to examine it, are you viewed as tight or as a folder? Two different things, because they will bluff you more if you are folder, and bluff you less if your range is strong. But then, in this spot, how can he know if you are both new to each other? This is important, so...
    2. My default play here will involve me giving him credit until we know what he is up to. He's leaving, true, but that doesn't mean i have to play the guessing game with him and my money. I may call the flop or not, but another important default is that I am deciding right then and there once the turn action comes. I am not giving him a turn bet and then folding. If I do that I'm truly being pushed around, because I will be priced into calling down his range and yet not see showdown.

    As it turns out the seven is sort of good for you, leaving him with one combo of pocket sevens, eight or more busted draws, with up to 8 AQ/ 1 Q10/ 3 TT, maybe some other stuff like T7. It's close, this isn't easy. However, what's more likely, that some guy about to leave a game rips 98 through or he just has you dead? His range beats your hand; I'm not losing sleep over a breakeven spot. I only find out if I call turn, because now I go to the mat with him.

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