Turn Semi-Bluff and Capped Ranges

MinnesotaMikeMinnesotaMike Red Chipper Posts: 13 ✭✭
1/3 NL, table full of mostly recreational players trying to hit high hand in local casino. My image is tight, but I am down to $200 from my initial $280 buy in. Played a couple of stupid hands early and then tightened up my game.

Middle aged lady to my left has been active, playing roughly 35 VPIP/25 PFR and opening between 5 and 6 BB from EP and MP. Right before this hand came up, I started saying to myself I need to get out of my comfort zone and start playing a little less ABC poker. I had yet to get out of line and felt I had an edge over the middle aged lady who was stuck for about $200 early in the session since she was playing a lot of hands.

About an hour and a half into the session I have the BTN, full ring. Villain 1 raises to $15 from UTG. Villain 2, a tight passive player calls from UTG +2 with an effective stack of about 60 BB ($180). I call with :Ad:8d.

Flop is :Tc:8s:2d . Villain bets $30, UTG + 2 calls. IP with middle pair and the back door nut flush draw, I decide to get sticky and call even though I think my equity vs Villain 1's range is about 25% at this point. I'm looking for an 8 or A on turn or a diamond so that if the turn is checked I can make a 3/4 or pot size bet and take it down. In my head, I am thinking I need to stop getting run over by Villain 1 who seems to have been on a heater since reloading for max buy in of $400.

The turn is the :Qc . This is an interesting turn card since it changes the board dramatically by putting an obvious straight out there, or a set of Queens that is calling the flop cbet with overs to the board, or a club flush draw. Villain 1 checks almost instantly upon seeing the Queen, and so does Villain 2. I instantly announce all in. I'm representing two pair, a straight, or a set and feeling both villains just capped their ranges. I feel it's difficult (but not impossible) for either player to have a straight or a set of Queens, since either would have bet to protect their hand and neither struck me as players who would have the courage to check a strong hand.

Villain 1 asks for a count (my all in bet was $148) and I throw out a reverse tell by sipping calmly out of my cup of ice water as she agonizes over the decision. She flashes her cards to the guy to her right who is just shakes his head and she hesitantly folds. Villain 2 quickly folded. Since I had such a tight image and also wanted to try to get her tilting, I decided to show. She said after the hand that either you look like the hero for making that call or an idiot when you are wrong. I think she folded pocket Aces or pocket Kings.

After that hand and limping twice with Aces (one pot I won when I flopped a set and villain got over-aggressive and came over the top of a 1/3 pot size bet when I donk led the turn), the good players at the table started avoiding me and the recreational players kept calling my tight open raises with marginal holdings. Finished up $200 on the session.

Any comments? Was this a stupid/high risk all in bet on the turn and am I understanding the concept of capped ranges, or is my logic all off? I'm just an aspiring student of the game trying to grind my way up, so welcome any constructive criticism/suggestions.




  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Starting the hand with ($193) and calling a 5bb raise with a SPR of 4 is not ideal for playing a hand like A8s.

    Also I would work on range assessment a little more. I highly doubt she folded AA or KK on a T82Q board. A10, JJ, 99, J10s, possible. I don't see Qx folding. Turn is around ($135) so your shoving for a PSB. If they are folding Qx here they are over folding in general.

    Did you consider 3 betting preflop? Not idea but if you raise to $60 then shove all pairs and draws on the flop with around PSB left.

    In general with these stacks i think you should fold preflop.
  • MinnesotaMikeMinnesotaMike Red Chipper Posts: 13 ✭✭
    @Austin I agree. Maybe she had JJ, and you are right. I don't see pocket Aces folding there. You mentioned calling a 5 bb raise with a 4 SPR is not ideal, and you're right. Calling with something like AJs or better is much better than A8s. I don't like A8s because it doesn't block much and will often create situations where you don't want to play for stacks when an Ace hits on the flop. Best you are hoping for is a miracle flop for trips or the 122 - 1 flopped flush. Villain 2 with a 4 SPR is going to have a stronger ranging calling that 5 BB raise than I have calling on the BTN.

    I guess I just trusted my live read against the two players in the hand and disregarded my cards. I could have easily had AA or KK look me up and it was likely a river boat gambling play where I need to control aggression more. QQ could have checked there to set a trap or a scared Queen (something like Q9) could have checked and then hero called the all in with a re-draw to the nuts.

    I'll definitely work on hand reading. I'm just working through the CORE course now and once I finish that I plan to hit the Hand Reading workbook hard. Your point of view is well taken and appreciated. Respect the help you offer in the forums. Thanks!

  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    If it's okay, @MinnesotaMike, I'll ask a question that I mean seriously before offering up comments.

    Are the observations that you noted what you came up with at the table or an after-the-fact recollection based on the fact that you made a bold play on the turn and it paid off?
  • MinnesotaMikeMinnesotaMike Red Chipper Posts: 13 ✭✭
    @moishetreats The observation I made at the table was that Villain #1 quickly checked the turn on appearance of the :Qc , and Villain #2 checked just as quickly. I felt if either had made the straight, a flush draw, a set, or two pair that they would have at least paused on the turn to consider making a PSB to protect their hand on the turn. I just didn't see a straight checking with 2 clubs on the board, I think a set or two pair would have made a 1/2 PSB or larger. I think either one of them bets with those types of hands, or at least pauses for 5 - 10 seconds to consider a bet. They just didn't strike me as players making a bold move like checking a made hand quickly on the turn to try to induce a PSB bluff by players left to act.

    As far as your mention of the after-the-fact recollection based on the fact I made a bold play on the turn, I didn't really look at it that way. I was actually holding my breath and praying Villain #1 folded and didn't sniff out the semi-bluff I felt I was running probably with scissors in hand. I know those usually don't end well for me. I guess I was l felt the need to get outside my comfort zone and play back at Villain #1 who had shown a high CBET frequency when RFI. It just happened to work out and helped me chip back up the rest of the session, but I could have easily have been looked up and out the door stuck $280.

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