Thoughts on playing big pots

N AN A Red Chipper Posts: 147 ✭✭
Hello,

I play live low limit 1/3 $500 max bet.

I understand in this low stake games, it's all about hand value.

So I tend to play big pots. My bet size is almost more than half the pot.

So for example, a normal open in my game is $16. If it's heads up to the flop, pot is $36.

On the flop I bet $30, if called, pot is $96.

On the turn, I bet $80, if called, pot is $256.

That usually leaves both stacks in danger and usually the both stacks are less than half pot.

I seem to not quite sure how to size my bet. My bet is always 70-90% of pot.

What should I do differently to lower my swings? I would say, I play 20-30% opening range

Thanks

Comments

  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 971 ✭✭✭✭
    well the obvious answer is to make smaller bets. It really comes down to understanding elasticity of different boards.

    it largely depends on your set of assumptions about how your opponents play.

    1/2 pot bets often get close to the the same folds on dry flops as bigger bets. if your bluffing this can increase your win rate. Dry flops are inelastic.

    On wetter boards, the elasticity goes up...big bets may fold out inside straights, week bluff catchers, Smaller bets get these to call more. Decide what you want to accomplish.

    The type of opponents also effects the elasticity. Calling stations tend to be more inelastic, as they will call any size bet with top or second pair and many draws....but nits tend to be inelastic, small bets fold out everything but top pair and really good draws.

    If you plan on barrelling a lot you generally want to keep ranges bigger on earlier streets, and thus smaller bets make more sense. But if you are going one and done look to make bigger bets on that street.

    As you get better at hand reading you will think, if your opponents range has hit the flop/ turn and river, with strong fits (top pair good kicker and better hands) and week fits...draws/ and bluff catchers. If the ratio is more hands towards strong fits/ it tends to be inelastic, if its more towards week fits it tends to be elastic. Thus you can then determine weather you want to get called or not (weather your bluffing or value betting). and this determines your bet size.

  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    In addition to @Eazzy's post, other things to consider:

    1) Stack size. The max bet might be $500, but you need to consider your and your opponent's stacks. You might might want to size your bet so that your river bet is closer to 2/3 or even 3/4 of the pot, putting more pressure on your opponent. If stack sizes are too small to make that realistic, then you could consider betting the flop, checking the turn, and shoving the river.

    2) Consider your opening ranges. If you're opening 20%-30% AND looking to lower your swings, then you and your opponent need to be deep-stacked to pull that off so that could apply three strong bets of massive pressure into your opponent's range. And you need to be damn solid at board reading and villain reading. If those aren't the case, then I would open less often, thus shifting your hands to the value side a little bit more if you tend to get it in by the river.

    3) Finally, consider your betting pattern. If you essentially barrel, barrel, barrel every hand, then that becomes predictable and, therefore, quite easy to exploit. Mix it up a little -- checking a street, raising a street, etc. -- both with made hands and bluffs. That helps to eliminate some predictability and makes you a little more difficult to exploit.
  • Yanming ZYanming Z Red Chipper Posts: 294 ✭✭✭
    N A wrote: »
    What should I do differently to lower my swings? I would say, I play 20-30% opening range

    Play less hands. LAGs rarely win at low stakes, because the rake will destroy you. 20% should be your upper limit, not lower.

  • N AN A Red Chipper Posts: 147 ✭✭
    Eazzy wrote: »
    If you plan on barrelling a lot you generally want to keep ranges bigger on earlier streets, and thus smaller bets make more sense. But if you are going one and done look to make bigger bets on that street.

    This is a huge leak, in my opinion, and no strong player does this.

    @ScandalMongering Zama any idea how to improve my bet sizing? I saw your post on 100% cbetting
  • N AN A Red Chipper Posts: 147 ✭✭
    I've been watching PIO solver videos. I don't own one....

    why don't I see a C/R solution in PIO? Is PIO only giving check, bet fold?
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Eazzy wrote: »
    If you plan on barrelling a lot you generally want to keep ranges bigger on earlier streets, and thus smaller bets make more sense. But if you are going one and done look to make bigger bets on that street.

    This is a huge leak, in my opinion, and no strong player does this.

    I agree with Eazzy on his post and we both have very consistent graphs. Can you elaborate on why you think this is a leak?

    If you go big right away and plan on barreling, you narrow the ranges really quickly and have less fold equity later.

    It's more profitable to bet small say 1\3 pot on the flop and get them to float with a wide range only to fold to the turn to half size double barrel when they miss.

    In fact many strong players do this and small bets on dry boards are becoming the norm.

    Stack size
    Board texture
    Player dynamics
    Position

    Seems like your trying to play more robotic and find a perfect formula on bet sizing. Most pots will be MW and very bloated, so you can bet small sizing in general.
  • N AN A Red Chipper Posts: 147 ✭✭
    @ScandalMongering Zama so what's the best sizing on the flop, turn, river?

    Is it 1/3 pot on the flop, 2/3 pot on the turn? How about river?

    Thanks
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @NA watch some LaTB videos of high stakes and try and mimic their sizing and figure out why their betting that size.
  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭✭
    I never see him anymore but Brian Kim was an absolute monster. I like his and Garret's game a lot.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Art in particular is a super savage and is one of the most theoretically gifted players I've seen on LaTB. He just doesn't make mistakes lol.

    He adjust very well against other PIO type players you will see him and Dan battle a lot with 2.5x raises. Where as when he is very garrett or another player he will make 4x raise with hands like A5s to get more FE. They think more about the money rather than reducing ranges based on the line if that makes sense.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jfarrow13 wrote: »
    I never see him anymore but Brian Kim was an absolute monster. I like his and Garret's game a lot.

    Brian Kim was one of the reasons I always watched LATB. He still plays, but doesn't want to play on stream. One of the commentators mentioned him last week that he will come in after the show and play with them.

    I think Brian has a very solid preflop range and makes very few mistakes post flop. I think he makes less mistakes than ART. I think ARts style has higher variance as his bet sizing is larger than Brians in terms of 3 bets and 4 bets. It may have changed where sizing is similar but I give art a more balanced range of bluffs / value where Brians is mostly bigger pairs and AK and less A2s-A5s.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    I think Brian has a very solid preflop range and makes very few mistakes post flop. I think he makes less mistakes than ART. I think ARts style has higher variance as his bet sizing is larger than Brians in terms of 3 bets and 4 bets. It may have changed where sizing is similar but I give art a more balanced range of bluffs / value where Brians is mostly bigger pairs and AK and less A2s-A5s.

    Yeah, sounds like Art is much stronger if Brian isn't 3-betting A5s ;)

    Brian has been playing high stakes for a while. I think Brian is still stronger player. Where Art's game benefits from forcing people to fold Brian can make some pretty sick calls.

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